How much should i expect to pay for a 2.5 short motor
13 November 2014, 03:56 AM
#1
How much should i expect to pay for a 2.5 short motor
I think ive decided im going to go for a 2.5 build for my new engine project. My aim is for 500 bhp and all the extra torque the 2.5 offers. I know i would be safer with a 2.1 forged stroker conversion or a 2.35 but although a slight risk at that power the 2.5 seems very appealing.
A few Question I have ????
What are the price differences between building a forged and strengthened 2.5 short block vs a 2.1 cdb stroker biuld ??
How much should i be looking to pay for a dead 2.5 block thats needing a rebuild and any preferred variant ?? and what should i look for and avoid when buying one ??
Cheers
Dubzy
A few Question I have ????
What are the price differences between building a forged and strengthened 2.5 short block vs a 2.1 cdb stroker biuld ??
How much should i be looking to pay for a dead 2.5 block thats needing a rebuild and any preferred variant ?? and what should i look for and avoid when buying one ??
Cheers
Dubzy
13 November 2014, 08:52 AM
#4
I mentioned Alyn as he's after information about the 2.5 and he's the man doing the cdb inserts for them so probably able to point him in the right direction with regards his queries running big power on the 2.5.
You can also de-stroker the 2.5 to 2.35.
You can also de-stroker the 2.5 to 2.35.
13 November 2014, 10:34 AM
#6
Thanks for the replies, im guessing there wont be too much price difference in the 2 builds mentioned ?? i will give Alyn a call and find out the pros and cons and the real costs involved.
Are there many members running a 500+ 2.5 motor as i would love a passenger ride to really help me make my mind up, I wouldnt mind travelling a bit for the experience and first hand knowledge of someone thats done a similar build ??
Are there many members running a 500+ 2.5 motor as i would love a passenger ride to really help me make my mind up, I wouldnt mind travelling a bit for the experience and first hand knowledge of someone thats done a similar build ??
13 November 2014, 10:42 AM
#7
You could try sending Shaun a pm, but I doubt he'll have anything good to say about running a 2.5 at those levels.
To be honest mate if it was the best way to skin the 500bhp cat there would be loads of them out there, so I'm guessing there's a very good reason it's the road less travelled.
2.1 or the more expensive 2.35 using a 2.2 block will do it cheaper than 2.5 inserts or de stroked and they are well proven to run that power all day provided the right man builds it.
Personally I would aim a little lower if you absolutely need to have the 2.5 say in the region of 460bhp, but then again I would just do it with 2.1 and twin scroll.
To be honest mate if it was the best way to skin the 500bhp cat there would be loads of them out there, so I'm guessing there's a very good reason it's the road less travelled.
2.1 or the more expensive 2.35 using a 2.2 block will do it cheaper than 2.5 inserts or de stroked and they are well proven to run that power all day provided the right man builds it.
Personally I would aim a little lower if you absolutely need to have the 2.5 say in the region of 460bhp, but then again I would just do it with 2.1 and twin scroll.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 13 November 2014 at 10:49 AM.
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15 November 2014, 12:07 AM
#9
Thanks for all the input guys, i am aware that the 2.5 would be a less reliable option at this level but whilst having my car mapped today i was lucky enough to go for a passenger ride in Maz's (member on here) lovely spec d with a 2.5 running 2 bar on md321v and i was extremely impressed to say the least. The car pulled effortlessly in every gear with loads of low down and mid range torque with the top end to boot which is really what im after.
All i need now is a passenger ride in a 2.1 and a 2.35 to see if my mind can be swayed..
All i need now is a passenger ride in a 2.1 and a 2.35 to see if my mind can be swayed..
Last edited by Dubzy; 15 November 2014 at 02:01 AM. Reason: typo
15 November 2014, 09:40 AM
#10
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Thanks for all the input guys, i am aware that the 2.5 would be a less reliable option at this level but whilst having my car mapped today i was lucky enough to go for a passenger ride in Maz's (member on here) lovely spec d with a 2.5 running 2 bar on md321v and i was extremely impressed to say the least. The car pulled effortlessly in every gear with loads of low down and mid range torque with the top end to boot which is really what im after. All i need now is a passenger ride in a 2.1 and a 2.35 to see if my mind can be swayed..
Nice guy Maz
2.23?
15 November 2014, 02:05 PM
#13
Thanks for all the input guys, i am aware that the 2.5 would be a less reliable option at this level but whilst having my car mapped today i was lucky enough to go for a passenger ride in Maz's (member on here) lovely spec d with a 2.5 running 2 bar on md321v and i was extremely impressed to say the least. The car pulled effortlessly in every gear with loads of low down and mid range torque with the top end to boot which is really what im after.
All i need now is a passenger ride in a 2.1 and a 2.35 to see if my mind can be swayed..
All i need now is a passenger ride in a 2.1 and a 2.35 to see if my mind can be swayed..
Lol , sorry if I had you dabbing the brakes in the passenger seat ! 😀
15 November 2014, 02:16 PM
#15
No issues with it ! Was I lucky or is it that bad news travels fast ? Running another car now which is 2.5 and runs a treat ! Had it running at 528 bhp ! No issues either !
15 November 2014, 09:24 PM
#20
Only joking ! 2.1 then for both road and strip I guess or 2.3 or how about destroking a 2.5 to 2.3 ? Ring mark at td racing as he has just done this to his own 2.5 and just run it in
15 November 2014, 10:23 PM
#21
Marks just pricing up the various builds for me before i make the final decision and start the ball rolling..
19 November 2014, 09:50 AM
#22
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To answer the title a fully forged 2.5 short engine from me is £2500, to answer a few questions regarding capacity and stroke differences, put simply a larger capacity engine will always spool quicker and produce more torque. If it its increased by stroke it will be a less rev happy enigine but produce more torque, a shorter stroke will make it rev better but less torque. Think of it like peddling a bike, longer crank will get you up the hill easier but it would be hard to peddle fast.
I do have a fresh 2.6 engine if you are interested, steel crank, rods, Manley pistons, pinned ej257, arp studs, avcs heads £5K ready to drop in and go :-)
I do have a fresh 2.6 engine if you are interested, steel crank, rods, Manley pistons, pinned ej257, arp studs, avcs heads £5K ready to drop in and go :-)
19 November 2014, 10:25 AM
#23
To answer the title a fully forged 2.5 short engine from me is £2500, to answer a few questions regarding capacity and stroke differences, put simply a larger capacity engine will always spool quicker and produce more torque. If it its increased by stroke it will be a less rev happy enigine but produce more torque, a shorter stroke will make it rev better but less torque. Think of it like peddling a bike, longer crank will get you up the hill easier but it would be hard to peddle fast.
I do have a fresh 2.6 engine if you are interested, steel crank, rods, Manley pistons, pinned ej257, arp studs, avcs heads £5K ready to drop in and go :-)
I do have a fresh 2.6 engine if you are interested, steel crank, rods, Manley pistons, pinned ej257, arp studs, avcs heads £5K ready to drop in and go :-)
:luvl ove:
19 November 2014, 02:38 PM
#24
I have owned forged 2.5s and 2.1s all running 450 - 500ish.
I abuse mine on track so I currently have a 2.1 - as it is a proven strong platform for high power.
Until Alyn brought out his CDB inserts I would say forget the 2.5 at that power. However now that is an option from him I would seriously consider it.
2.1 internals are the same price as 2.35 - the price difference is the block. A bare 2.2 block is far bigger money than a bare 2.0 CDB
Also ask who will be doing the machine work as that is as important as the build.
On a subaru block I personaly would let SMG, AS Performance and Engine Tuner near it as far as machine work went. That couple with a good builder should make for a good job.
A loose gut feel of the two engine is -
2.5 lazier power delivery, more torque, kind of more of a relentless German style power delivery. 2.1 A bit more punch, more of a subaru kick in the back delivery. Less torque more hp in flavor. Lots depends on turbos, mapping blah blah.
It also depends where you use the engine
Out in Germany kicking AMG **** down fast sweeping back roads the 2.5s were the better engine
On the shorter tracks, I drive now, I am mainly in 3rd and 4th so the revier 2.1s are the better solution
So also have a think about where and how you will use it
Cheers
Steve
I abuse mine on track so I currently have a 2.1 - as it is a proven strong platform for high power.
Until Alyn brought out his CDB inserts I would say forget the 2.5 at that power. However now that is an option from him I would seriously consider it.
2.1 internals are the same price as 2.35 - the price difference is the block. A bare 2.2 block is far bigger money than a bare 2.0 CDB
Also ask who will be doing the machine work as that is as important as the build.
On a subaru block I personaly would let SMG, AS Performance and Engine Tuner near it as far as machine work went. That couple with a good builder should make for a good job.
A loose gut feel of the two engine is -
2.5 lazier power delivery, more torque, kind of more of a relentless German style power delivery. 2.1 A bit more punch, more of a subaru kick in the back delivery. Less torque more hp in flavor. Lots depends on turbos, mapping blah blah.
It also depends where you use the engine
Out in Germany kicking AMG **** down fast sweeping back roads the 2.5s were the better engine
On the shorter tracks, I drive now, I am mainly in 3rd and 4th so the revier 2.1s are the better solution
So also have a think about where and how you will use it
Cheers
Steve
Last edited by Steve Whitehorn; 19 November 2014 at 02:47 PM.
19 November 2014, 05:22 PM
#25
To answer the title a fully forged 2.5 short engine from me is £2500, to answer a few questions regarding capacity and stroke differences, put simply a larger capacity engine will always spool quicker and produce more torque. If it its increased by stroke it will be a less rev happy enigine but produce more torque, a shorter stroke will make it rev better but less torque. Think of it like peddling a bike, longer crank will get you up the hill easier but it would be hard to peddle fast.
I do have a fresh 2.6 engine if you are interested, steel crank, rods, Manley pistons, pinned ej257, arp studs, avcs heads £5K ready to drop in and go :-)
I do have a fresh 2.6 engine if you are interested, steel crank, rods, Manley pistons, pinned ej257, arp studs, avcs heads £5K ready to drop in and go :-)
The 2.6 ej257 sounds very nice but something i know very little about, how does it compare for safe power handling capabilities ??
19 November 2014, 05:32 PM
#26
I have owned forged 2.5s and 2.1s all running 450 - 500ish.
I abuse mine on track so I currently have a 2.1 - as it is a proven strong platform for high power.
Until Alyn brought out his CDB inserts I would say forget the 2.5 at that power. However now that is an option from him I would seriously consider it.
2.1 internals are the same price as 2.35 - the price difference is the block. A bare 2.2 block is far bigger money than a bare 2.0 CDB
Also ask who will be doing the machine work as that is as important as the build.
On a subaru block I personaly would let SMG, AS Performance and Engine Tuner near it as far as machine work went. That couple with a good builder should make for a good job.
A loose gut feel of the two engine is -
2.5 lazier power delivery, more torque, kind of more of a relentless German style power delivery. 2.1 A bit more punch, more of a subaru kick in the back delivery. Less torque more hp in flavor. Lots depends on turbos, mapping blah blah.
It also depends where you use the engine
Out in Germany kicking AMG **** down fast sweeping back roads the 2.5s were the better engine
On the shorter tracks, I drive now, I am mainly in 3rd and 4th so the revier 2.1s are the better solution
So also have a think about where and how you will use it
Cheers
Steve
I abuse mine on track so I currently have a 2.1 - as it is a proven strong platform for high power.
Until Alyn brought out his CDB inserts I would say forget the 2.5 at that power. However now that is an option from him I would seriously consider it.
2.1 internals are the same price as 2.35 - the price difference is the block. A bare 2.2 block is far bigger money than a bare 2.0 CDB
Also ask who will be doing the machine work as that is as important as the build.
On a subaru block I personaly would let SMG, AS Performance and Engine Tuner near it as far as machine work went. That couple with a good builder should make for a good job.
A loose gut feel of the two engine is -
2.5 lazier power delivery, more torque, kind of more of a relentless German style power delivery. 2.1 A bit more punch, more of a subaru kick in the back delivery. Less torque more hp in flavor. Lots depends on turbos, mapping blah blah.
It also depends where you use the engine
Out in Germany kicking AMG **** down fast sweeping back roads the 2.5s were the better engine
On the shorter tracks, I drive now, I am mainly in 3rd and 4th so the revier 2.1s are the better solution
So also have a think about where and how you will use it
Cheers
Steve
19 November 2014, 06:23 PM
#27
Cheers buddy, some useful info there. Im guessing the 2.5 forged build is on a stock/ un pinned block ?? how much would it be with the pinning included ??
The 2.6 ej257 sounds very nice but something i know very little about, how does it compare for safe power handling capabilities ??
The 2.6 ej257 sounds very nice but something i know very little about, how does it compare for safe power handling capabilities ??
What power level is safe ? I have run 575 on a 2.5 scd with a pinned block , the same block then did time attack at over mid 600 bhp ! Maybe it was luck ? Maybe bad news travels fast ? Most builders seem to say keep the 2.5 to 450 ish and you'll be ok
! When I need a build next it will be going to alyn at as performance for closed decking
Maz
19 November 2014, 06:44 PM
#28
Scooby Regular
pick a tuner, speak to them about you want, get them to spec and build it, install it etc. you can take the best parts in the world but if they are mismatched it will be a crap car.
19 November 2014, 06:47 PM
#29
What power level is safe ? I have run 575 on a 2.5 scd with a pinned block , the same block then did time attack at over mid 600 bhp ! Maybe it was luck ? Maybe bad news travels fast ? Most builders seem to say keep the 2.5 to 450 ish and you'll be ok !
When I need a build next it will be going to alyn at as performance for closed decking
Maz
! When I need a build next it will be going to alyn at as performance for closed decking
Maz
...and you had a dose of luck
