Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Im seriouly leaning towards the 2.5, my main issue is once im up and running at 500bhp i may still have the bug and may then desire 600bhp etc and the 2.1 would be then better suited and i would rather not have to pay out again. Once ive got the pricing back from Mark i will make a decision as i want to get the ball rolling

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

That is what im doing mate, im just doing as much homework as poosible before i dive in

Crickey, how long have you running at that power for ??? forged wrx engine ??

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

2.1 stroker and its done 25k+ miles now at that power

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Tried and tested then and sounds like you have a nice strong motor. Who built it if you dont mind saying ??

wms-racing

A 2.5 forged short engine at £2500 is a scdb, for a closed deck it would be £3000.
The 2.6 ive built with a pinned block is only because a Customer ordered the block then decided to go CDB, so I used it for the 2.6, i'm not planning on running much over 400, I just want a nice, non laggy 400 ish. Steve Simpson put a running in map on it and it made 350/400 at 3500 on actuator pressure :-)
I tend to use AS Performance for my CDB's now, they are not that expensive and add peace of mind. I'll post a picture of a recent build shortly.
As for the reliabilty of the 2.5's, I built a forged scdb about 2 years ago, uts been running 430bhp and been a daily driver and track day car for around 20K, it came back for a refresh as it was suffering with a headgasket problem (Cometics) and other than that it was perfect.

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for all the info its much appreciated. out of interest what do you charge for a 2.1 short motor ??

wms-racing

A 2.1 to the following spec is £2500 up to 450bhp £2600 for over that in a scdb, or +£500 in a cdb

Block bored and faces skimmed
Mahle 4032 or 4618 pistons
ej257 heat treated crank
acl race series mains and big ends
Williams H beam rods, arp bolts
Subaru 11mm oil pump, new front and rear seas
oil pickup
new sump fitted

wms-racing

2.5cdb from Alyn, fully forged with JE pistons, this went into an 08 Hatch

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Brilliant !! Thanks for the all the info mate

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

I think this is what i will be going for maz..

JGlanzaV

iTrader: (3)

Engine tuner

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like you were more than justified paying the extra pennies, if my new build can get that mileage without a refresh or major overhaul i'll be happy

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

I know there is no definative answer to this as there are too many variables but in general when you have had a forged engine built and pushing close or maybe slightly beyond power wise to what its rated to how long do you expect it to last without an overhaual or how many miles rather ???

My only real previous experience was with owning a rwd cossie for ten years and in that time had 3 complete rebuilds and none lasted for more than 25k miles and using different engine builders. I guess thats what i would be hoping for now as thats the only experience i have lol.

wms-racing

Assuming the build is good with the right components, correct clearances etc.the next thing is the quality of the mapping, there are mappers, and mappers! After that it's very much down to servicing and how hard its used. The 2.5 I built 2 years ago, running 430bhp and a variety of daily driving and some track day use has proven to be 99% reliable, only the recent headgasket issue really, this has been rectified with some Cosworth gaskets and a slight drop in CR. The bores, pistons and bearings looked like new.

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

Good shout ! When I need a build next ill be doing the same !

Steve Whitehorn

iTrader: (13)

+1 This

Warm it up, cool it sown, change the oil, get gauges to monitor what is going on ect.
Is the other big factor in making it last.

Also temper that with the fact that any engine producing big power that is driven real hard, once it is warmed up, will only last so long.

Also as JGlanzaV pointed out, a spec gives you an indication of what something will be able to take.
But there are many exceptions to the rule, and certain gearboxes /engines take alot more power day in day out than they should do. But they do. So it is not set in stone.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there

Agree with 2.1L,its great compromise between the good and early spool and high bhp and torque,we are run open deck 2.1L with MDX321T and we are made 452bhp/440lb-ft and on 20% meth 490bhp/480lb-ft

But if you are looking to get 2.5L without the CDB insert then as above people recommend to lower yours power target

With CDB insert then I would go probably with destroker'd 2.5L which seems is best from both worlds and agree with above guys,I would go with Alyn CDB inserts which been proven on many cars at various bhp levels

Hope this help

Thanks,Jura

veerinder9

iTrader: (1)

How much on an exchange basis for a newage sti short motor?

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

I agree mate my question was more aimed at what peoples expectations are when they have an engine re built and aim to run at close to its rated power capabilities. I would like to think mine will last for 25k if cared for properly and obviously not been abused every day with a mixture of everyday driving and the odd track day and 1/4 mile etc.

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

I think i have pretty much decided on a 2.5 cdb now as the torque is so appealing, Can you please explain what affect de-stroking the 2.5 will have on its strength and power handling capabilities ??

Also what are the advantages and disadvantages in both bhp and torque and revving ability ??
Is it more expensive to de-stroke the 2.5 as apposed to a regular 2.5 forged build ??

I dont know a great deal about stroking, i know its common to stroke the 2.0 and 2.2 and now becoming common to de-stroke the 2.5 so all a little confusing to me lol..

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi there

Agree 2.5L torque is appealing,but with 2.5L you will inherent their issues too,but with CDB insert you should be just OK

Destrokering 2.5L is very popular in US and now seems too popular over here

Advantage of the destroker'd 2.5L is you can rev higher than with 2.5L,in bhp you shouldn't see any difference,in torque figures really depends on the turbo used,but with MDX321V or SC46 or any other standard location turbo,you will loose bit of torque

Disadvantage of the destroker'd 2.5L,you will loose some displacement and then you will loose bit of torque,but you will gain on the top end or on the rev ability

Not sure if destroker'd 2.5L is more expensive,you will need to use longer rods(+2mm),stroker pistons or custom pistons(I think JE Pistons are available,but I would speak with Alyn,I think he done destroker'd CDB 2.5L or you can speak with Drew) and you will need to use EJ207 crank,apart of that everything should be same and same parts like on standard forged rebuild

2.5L is lazy engine in standard form,agree have more torque,but torque is not everything,I just prefer have more power than torque

Hope this help

Thanks,Jura

wms-racing

• Quote:

  Originally Posted by veerinder9

  How much on an exchange basis for a newage sti short motor?

£500 if running ok, or £250 if its had cranks or piston failure

wms-racing

It won't really change anything strength wise, it will just change the mechanical torque the engine will produce. As an example, when you up stroke a 2.0 to 2.1 you add 4mm of stroke and you gain around 8% of torque, so I would suggest this will be the same when you de-stroke a 2.5.
PS I will have +2mm rods in stock by the end of the year :-)

Dubzy

iTrader: (4)

Thanks for all the info guys, A de-stroked 2.5 cdb would seem a good compromise then even if still a little unproven at 500+ compared to a 2.1 but i think its a risk im now prepared to take and i will be keeping my current v8 sti motor to keep me on the road if it all goes wrong lol. Time to start the ball rolling........

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

I am going to be running a destroked 2.5 in a pinned block, aiming for a solid 550bhp using a brog warner efr 7670 turbo.

This is the spec as I picked it up used but only covered about 5k ish

Tomei +2mm rods
Cp custom pistons
Acl race bearings
Ej25 casings ( pinned )
Drilled for 14mm studs using 14mm-12mm studs
12mm modified oil pump
2.0 rear thrust crank
Rcm water pump
Billet belt guide
Twin scroll sump / pickup
2.5 ringed standard sti heads

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

Stock location on the turbo banny ? Or rotated ? Looks quite big ! Easy fit ?

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Im going front mounted as its a T4 twin scroll housing with external wastegates. this is the manifold



And how it looked fitted to the previous owner's car but I will be using a front exit exhaust through the bumper

scooby2.5maz

iTrader: (16)

Very nice ! , daily driver then ?

Alan Jeffery

He got what he paid for..