Geometry
27 December 2006, 10:26 PM
#1
Geometry
After having a sucession of rear wheel drive cars, - Mk2 escorts, Capri and Sierra's, I miss the sideways action!!
My car is set up with prodrive settings, which the car sticks to the road like **** on a blanket, but it feels too safe!!, I'd love to be able to do power slides etc easily rather than thrashing the nuts out of the engine to try and get the wheels to spin, well, generally, I want the car to be more exciting to drive!!
It seems, at the moment, the only way to get the car going sideways is to pile on the power when turning, and take my foot off the throttle, then the car slides, (on a damp road) the moment I put power back on, the grip comes back.
When I done the driver training day with Andy Walsh, I was with a Lotus Elise, Mazda MX-5 and a Honda S2000, and they were constantly spinning round in circles all day, but my car only lost it twice, and that not for the want of trying!!!!
GOD, I miss tail happy motoring
My car is set up with prodrive settings, which the car sticks to the road like **** on a blanket, but it feels too safe!!, I'd love to be able to do power slides etc easily rather than thrashing the nuts out of the engine to try and get the wheels to spin, well, generally, I want the car to be more exciting to drive!!
It seems, at the moment, the only way to get the car going sideways is to pile on the power when turning, and take my foot off the throttle, then the car slides, (on a damp road) the moment I put power back on, the grip comes back.
When I done the driver training day with Andy Walsh, I was with a Lotus Elise, Mazda MX-5 and a Honda S2000, and they were constantly spinning round in circles all day, but my car only lost it twice, and that not for the want of trying!!!!
GOD, I miss tail happy motoring
27 December 2006, 10:29 PM
#3
This was my reply to corny via Pm lol....
Cornelius
"Can Zak setup my geometry so the car handles with a more RWD feeling??"
In a word mate, yes Zak can set it up however you want it setup.
Mine geometry is rather more agressive than normal..
As standard the rear wheels on the impreza toe in quite alot. This is very safe and provides masses of rear end grip.. great for joe public who doesnt want to crash his car.. however results in alot of understeer.
The Prodrive settings remove alot of this rear toe but not all of it, the car is still set quite safe and easy for joe to drive... still understeer remains.
My rears toe out slightly and this actually makes the rear of the car steer round faster. You can feel the back end steering very very progressivly.
To be honest, and im not kidding its one of the most responsive chassis ive ever driven. The car is very very comunicative now and gives a generous amount of feedback.
I also have the Noltec camber/castor front topmounts of which we now run 5.5deg of caster which is way more than a spec c and this gives alot of dynamic camber. As a result this makes the car turn in very very well, the steering has masses of feel and is weighted really nicely.
The car isnt as good this time of year because to be honest its too stiff and needs more roll to generate some more lateral grip.
I have both front and rear whiteline adjustable roll bars and even with the front on a soft setting a 22mm bar is too stiff in the current conditions.. however in the dry the car is very very good indeed.
I hope that helps you out a bit more.
If i can help in any other way.. let me know
Good luck
Cornelius
"Can Zak setup my geometry so the car handles with a more RWD feeling??"
In a word mate, yes Zak can set it up however you want it setup.
Mine geometry is rather more agressive than normal..
As standard the rear wheels on the impreza toe in quite alot. This is very safe and provides masses of rear end grip.. great for joe public who doesnt want to crash his car.. however results in alot of understeer.
The Prodrive settings remove alot of this rear toe but not all of it, the car is still set quite safe and easy for joe to drive... still understeer remains.
My rears toe out slightly and this actually makes the rear of the car steer round faster. You can feel the back end steering very very progressivly.
To be honest, and im not kidding its one of the most responsive chassis ive ever driven. The car is very very comunicative now and gives a generous amount of feedback.
I also have the Noltec camber/castor front topmounts of which we now run 5.5deg of caster which is way more than a spec c and this gives alot of dynamic camber. As a result this makes the car turn in very very well, the steering has masses of feel and is weighted really nicely.
The car isnt as good this time of year because to be honest its too stiff and needs more roll to generate some more lateral grip.
I have both front and rear whiteline adjustable roll bars and even with the front on a soft setting a 22mm bar is too stiff in the current conditions.. however in the dry the car is very very good indeed.
I hope that helps you out a bit more.
If i can help in any other way.. let me know
Good luck
Last edited by frayz; 27 December 2006 at 10:32 PM.
27 December 2006, 10:29 PM
#4
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My car caught me out on a roundabout yesterday, feels a bit more happy to spin the wheels lower down in the rev range now, ie second gear on a damp rounabout (near the civic centre in Dagenham if anyone knows it)
All of a sudden Im facing the wrong way, and i only accelerated a tiny bit.
Rear tyres near the legal limit is what you need
All of a sudden Im facing the wrong way, and i only accelerated a tiny bit.
Rear tyres near the legal limit is what you need
27 December 2006, 10:42 PM
#5
Originally Posted by Milamber
Nutter 
Have to admit, I've always wanted a Sierra RS Cosworth, either the 3 door or the Sapphire.
Will always remember the second edition of Max Power when it featured a pair of brothers who owned a white Mk2 Escort complete with blue zebra stripes and a monster Sierra Cosworth engine transplant, AND they were from Southend!! I WANT ONE!!!!!!
Thanks again Frayz, will be calling on Zak for a chat
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31 December 2006, 04:26 PM
#12
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You are an absolute nut case 
!!!! I'm not brave enough to let rip in a rear wheel drive. Driven rear wheel cossie's and even in the dry it'd scare the life out of me...much prefer the safer AWD option !! I know I can push my car to the limit around the corner and know it will still be there after the corner!!!
Wimp I know!!!!
!!!! I'm not brave enough to let rip in a rear wheel drive. Driven rear wheel cossie's and even in the dry it'd scare the life out of me...much prefer the safer AWD option !! I know I can push my car to the limit around the corner and know it will still be there after the corner!!!Wimp I know!!!!
31 December 2006, 04:32 PM
#13
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Originally Posted by EmEm
much prefer the safer AWD option !! I know I can push my car to the limit around the corner and know it will still be there after the corner!!!
!! I know I can push my car to the limit around the corner and know it will still be there after the corner!!! 
31 December 2006, 04:39 PM
#14
Originally Posted by EmEm
You are an absolute nut case !!!! I'm not brave enough to let rip in a rear wheel drive. Driven rear wheel cossie's and even in the dry it'd scare the life out of me...much prefer the safer AWD option !! I know I can push my car to the limit around the corner and know it will still be there after the corner!!!
Wimp I know!!!!
!!!! I'm not brave enough to let rip in a rear wheel drive. Driven rear wheel cossie's and even in the dry it'd scare the life out of me...much prefer the safer AWD option !! I know I can push my car to the limit around the corner and know it will still be there after the corner!!!Wimp I know!!!!
The problem with the scoob is that it has a tendency for understeer, where the front wheels are turned, but the car is still going forward and not repsonding to the steering wheel under powered turns.
plus it would be nice to be able to get the back out on it occasionally
private roads of course
31 December 2006, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Mrs ESC
Yeah 99% of the time, but there is always the 1 time when it ends up in the ditch.
31 December 2006, 05:13 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by frayz
I think you could easily get the scoob to handle the way you want it too with a few parts and a good geometry setup mate.
"Evo" style turn in is only a few mods and a GEO setup away
"Evo" style turn in is only a few mods and a GEO setup away
I guess the set up was done at Mocom? Had mine set up at Elite and they where not happy to set it up to the spec I required, i.e. Whiteline 'Sport' spec. so I think I have ended up with a 'prodrive' set up. Whilst this is good, I was still a bit disapointed not to get the set up I wanted. Reading this post just reminded me that i still have some unfinished business with the chassis.
31 December 2006, 05:16 PM
#20
Originally Posted by yellowvanman
Frayz, where did you get the Noltec top mounts, is there a uk supplier or did you have then shipped from Aus?
I guess the set up was done at Mocom? Had mine set up at Elite and they where not happy to set it up to the spec I required, i.e. Whiteline 'Sport' spec. so I think I have ended up with a 'prodrive' set up. Whilst this is good, I was still a bit disapointed not to get the set up I wanted. Reading this post just reminded me that i still have some unfinished business with the chassis.
I guess the set up was done at Mocom? Had mine set up at Elite and they where not happy to set it up to the spec I required, i.e. Whiteline 'Sport' spec. so I think I have ended up with a 'prodrive' set up. Whilst this is good, I was still a bit disapointed not to get the set up I wanted. Reading this post just reminded me that i still have some unfinished business with the chassis.
31 December 2006, 05:56 PM
#21
All Noltec components are available through Zak @ Mocom.. He's the main UK distributor for them.
Elite will charge you extra over and above the set price for a geometry setup for each of your own specs.. regardless as to whether theyre already adjusting that component or not... W@nk.. in my opinion.
The Noltec topmounts are both camber and castor adjustable and come in either Street or Clubsport varients.
The Both offer the same adjustabliity however the street spec varients have a spherical bearing in a poly housing.. The poly hosing makes the topmount slightly more complient than that of the clubsport and slighly softer to live with day to day.
The clubsports as fitted to my car are completely solid, and whilst slightly noisey over lowspeed bumps offer very accurate alignment of the stuts.
A full geometry setup at Mocom Racing comes in at about £80 if i remember correctly. Thats everything, camber castor, toe, slips etc on state of the art Hunter alignment equipment... £80 for that is about the best £80 a scooby owner could wish to spend in my opinion.
Hope that helps
Frayz
Elite will charge you extra over and above the set price for a geometry setup for each of your own specs.. regardless as to whether theyre already adjusting that component or not... W@nk.. in my opinion.
The Noltec topmounts are both camber and castor adjustable and come in either Street or Clubsport varients.
The Both offer the same adjustabliity however the street spec varients have a spherical bearing in a poly housing.. The poly hosing makes the topmount slightly more complient than that of the clubsport and slighly softer to live with day to day.
The clubsports as fitted to my car are completely solid, and whilst slightly noisey over lowspeed bumps offer very accurate alignment of the stuts.
A full geometry setup at Mocom Racing comes in at about £80 if i remember correctly. Thats everything, camber castor, toe, slips etc on state of the art Hunter alignment equipment... £80 for that is about the best £80 a scooby owner could wish to spend in my opinion.
Hope that helps
Frayz
31 December 2006, 06:22 PM
#23
Originally Posted by Cornelius
£80? that's pretty much on par with Elite, plus there's the added bonus that Zak knows his stuff inside out, and can set the car up to exactly how you want it!!!!
Definately need MORE overtime
Definately need MORE overtime
31 December 2006, 06:28 PM
#24
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I've had the Terzo aligned by BOTH Elite and Zak in the last 3 months..... 
This was due to new wheels at Elite then later changing to 18's, new suspension and adding RR bar and droplinks.
Zak was cheaper and he took me through everything he did as he went along.....
Top man!!!!!
This was due to new wheels at Elite then later changing to 18's, new suspension and adding RR bar and droplinks.
Zak was cheaper and he took me through everything he did as he went along.....
Top man!!!!!
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