Gutmann pug

My pug 205 just wont lift off oversteer ......A good thing you may say, but instead it has a reasonable amount of understeer. I really would like to be rid of the understeer to get the back moving a little.
A track day on saturday had all the other 205's there skuttling all over the show and mine squat and running well, but I dont like the lack of control at the front end.
It may be the tyres, im currently running on new fronts but the rears are both different and as left by the previous owner. I am changing them all this week to new yoko's. Will this make a difference?

Any other advice would be appreciated

regards

Gary

IanWatson

New tyres all round will make a huge difference - just put new Toyos on my pug and it's a different car (new suspension front and rear plus a rebuilt rear beam helped too!)

Is the suspension standard? Are you running a 309 rear axle?

Gutmann pug

It has adjustable Koni's on all round, lowered by around 25mm I think. It handles better than standard by a mile but I just want it better....

before the cage and strip down


after cage, not the best picture as it looks higher than it is due to slope in drive

prana

Bingo !

reduce damping in the front or increase rebound damping in the rear on your Koni's and you will get lift off oversteer. From what you said, it sounds like the front is overdamped, remember small increments rather than big increments

Gutmann pug

Best get the ramps out and have a little look see what i can change then.... What about another idea of ruinning my new Yoko's on the front with their supposed excellent stickyness and leaving the rear with me Kumo's on, not quite so sticky. Would that have the same effect? Grip and the front and not quite so much at the rear

prana

Gutman

I personally dont like that idea as it makes the car unpredictable and reduces the overall track times because of your tires, but that is my opinion. The other option I suppose is to play with your tyre pressures, allowing the front to get warmer than the rear to aid traction but since you have adjustables, it is superior tuning this way.

edit: you want to REDUCE rebound damping in the rear, and increase/retain compression damping in the front. Sorry, my brains have left the building

IanWatson

I'd agree with Prana - you should aim to get enough LOOS by tweaking the suspension not by reducing grip levels.

ex-webby

prana

why do you say to reduce rebound damping in the rear? I would have suggested that this would create more understeer / less oversteer.

I would suggest increased bump damping at the front (as long as you don't increase rebound damping at the same time) and increased rebound damping at the rear (as long as you don't increase bump damping at the same time).

In addition, the most likely culprit is the tyres. You should always aim to have the same tyre alround, otherwise the chasis will be almost impossible to tune predictably.

Cheers

Simon

Gutmann pug

I think your are right guys...first things first, new Yoko's all round tomorrow lunchtime. Then I will go play and take it from there.

asagi

Most cars will lift-off oversteer. Also trail brake into a corner. You will get great oversteer up to the apex, then use the throttle and opposite-lock to balance the car on the exit.


Tyres are important also as has already been said, but you can make the difference as well.

Give it a go.

BAZZA

kamikaze

i was under the impression that understeer was caused by no front end grip

hence getting wider front tyres can help give you more grip

not sure about my impreza, but on my other car many peopel go from 175 fronts to 185 or 195 tyre width
this is without having to change the alloys

also getting my geometry setup professionally definitely helped reduce understeer a lot. this cost about 100 quid. how about companies like powerstation or scared stiff

Gutmann pug

Tyres will be on tomorrow lunchtime ..... just gotta scrub them in then I will let you know if they made any difference or not

Cheryl

hi ,i had a 1.9 gti as my last car before i got my scoob.it was slamed 60MM all round on 205/40 17's and handled the nuts ! giv it go ! no understeer mate ;0

prana

Simon ... brain was asleep last night. Lemme work the logic here.

Lift off, weight shifts to front wheels, causing extension of rear springs compression to front. Increasing rebound damp will increase time it takes spring to extend causing it to lift off oversteer lacking traction. Yup Simon, you are right, I was correct first time round. I always get confused btwn compression and rebound. Good pick

Claudius

There's probably -3 degrees rear camber and zero front on that thing!

Gutmann pug

Abso bloody lutly brilliant ,...... just got back from the 'Ring' and the pug handled like a dream. £160 for a set of Yoko's made all the difference. The understeer has gone and now the car goes exactly where I point it.
1,200 miles 15 laps and it didnt miss a beat ........

NOZZER

Glad it went well at the ring mate. Got there and back aswell, another bonus Any ring reports on the go then?

Gutmann pug

Ought to get myself a web site up together really, going again in three weeks and then again in september.