Damo STi

ive just done a full bottom rebuild with new con rods over sixed shells etc, i put on a ihi vf28 turbo, new knock sensor, uprated oil pump, new oil medein, just got it back from my mates garage and the noise is back not as bad as last time but its there.

I have only done 109miles and not went over 3000rpm, yet it sounds like a shell has slipped and theres micro size bits of metal in my fresh clean oil.

does anyone know what could have went wrong im sh**ing my pants as i dont have money to shell out to rebuild it all again.

many thanks Damian

drb5

iTrader: (4)

f*ckin gutted for ya m8!!!

i know how it feels the first time as you know, but i'd shoot meself if it happened again let alone that quickly!!!

what caused it to go in the first place? something must have showed?!

Damo STi

my mate said the oil pump gave up that was the first time, now we are both scratching our heads but it doesnt sound good, he's taking it apart again to morow.

thanks matey

drb5

iTrader: (4)

can you go through how you went about getting the car going on turn-over, driving the car and what oil is used?

Damo STi

hi mate i wasnt there when it was first started so id need to ask him that, as for driving iwas taking it calm not going past 3000rpm and taking my time getting there, the oil was castrol oil but not fully/smei, i have done only motorway miles 109miles and all was perfect not a problem or sound out of place when i got back into it from picking up my dad i was reversing back out and i could here a small rattle, i stopped opened bonnet no noise i then reved it a somw amount no noise.

got back in and then i heard it again got out reved a bit higher 2.500rpm and i could here the crank not happy making the banging noise again

drb5

iTrader: (4)

what oil is it exactly m8? i know you say it's not fully synthetic, but tbh it SHOULD have been running in oil?

so, there wasn't any noises till you stopped from pickin up your dad? do you have a oil pressure gauge?

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

be carefull with the small particles of metal as i had a cavturbo that ended up with similar problem and the metal would block the oil pump and you would loose oil pressure mine turned out to be metal coming off the pistons but surely this will not be the case on yours, the metal might still be in the oil from say the original oil cooler etc which was causing problems on mine at 1st

moonraker

It sounds like the rebuild was done ok, you changed the cooler etc. but were all of the oil passages in the block cleaned?? All the blanking plugs need taking out and the passages flushing through, if they are left, the bits and oil goes straight into your nice new shells. ooops. The oil pump was the cause of my engine failure too, and there were bits everywhere. I spent ages cleaning the block, and ive now done 1600 miles no probs.

Run it in on normal mineral oil, this allows a greater wear rate than semi/fully synth, so will run in better. Change to semi/fully synth only when its run in.
On initial start, i run engine til it was hot, then changed oil again, and changed it after 100 miles. there was still alot of muck coming out. I then changed it again at 500 miles, 750 miles and 1000 miles. At 1500miles i filled with semi synth. Oil filter change every time, now as good as gold. Expensive, but seeing what i'd spent on the engine parts, well worth it!!

If you are stripping it again, make sure it is as clean as you can possibly get it.

Dont run the engine anymore, as damage will occur to mr. crank and all his friends, and thats not good.

Keep us all posted with how you are getting on mate,

Keep smilin, it cant get much worse......!

Si

crusher

Sorry to hear of your problem but it sounds like swarf was left behind from the last failure.
I agree with Moonraker...a mate of mine spent a fortune years ago on a rebuild but didn't get the block flushed...All the other components,oil pump,crank,pistons shells rods etc, had been replaced and the sump meticulously cleaned, but he didn't get the oil galleries in the block sorted...OOps...50 miles later....big ends gone....V expensive mistake...
Years ago when I rallied a Talbot and had a rebuild done by Skip Brown he said that the amount of crap that comes out of the galleries sometimes has to be seen to be believed...
As long as everything is spotless on the rebuild then I'd run a running in oil for 100, change it for fresh ,run again until 500,same agian till 1000,the semi synth...so more or less as Moonraker said...
Hope you haven't done too much damage...

David_Wallis

cam belt tensioner?

crusher

Could be...it's a good un for sounding like a bottom end problem if ya know what I mean!...

Pavlo

if the engine blew before, you need to have fitted a new oil cooler or there will most likely be crap in the old one.

Paul

Damo STi

parts that i had bought for rebuild no1

brand new uprated GGR oil pump
brand new oil medien or medean?
brand new conrods
new big end shells, main bearing shells all over sized .25 bigends 0.5
crankshaft reground and balanced
fully head gasket kit {boy was that dear}
5 ltrs of A1 Auto's oil


The engine was totally stripped to bits and all heavy flushed out in a cleaning machine made for this only for doing it. as soon as i heard the banging i was switched off and taken back to my mate garage so it had only done it for 5secs max, my oil pressure was all checked before i picked up car but i have a gauge i just cant get an adpator to reach my sensor to get it working so i dont know if the new pump had failed.

Got the engine out and its looking like the crankshaft was not machinced right to go with new conrods no2 and no4 has slipped and damaged crankshaft i have called company that did repair onit and supplied me shells and conrods and they said it aint there fault but ive to take it into edinburgh to thrm tommorow to get it looked at, but i dont have that kinda money to fork out again to get it rebuilt, should i hold the responsible for all this ??? my heads about to burst!!!

thanks guys for all info and help

p.s i had a cavturbo i spent £5000 rebuilding it to get 265bhp and 300lbs torque for it to again 2 yaers later melt a low comp racing piston, i never have luck

cheers Damian

R19KET

Damian,

Posted on the other thread, but just seen this one.

I'm sorry, but you can't clean out all the oil ways in a parts hot washer, or similar.

As I mentioned in the other thread, all the core plugs need to be removed from the block, and heads, and the oil ways need to be fushed though under pressure.

The crank is even worse to clean, because the oil ways are plugged with ball bearings. The drilling behind the ball bearing is pretty long, and over a period, sludge, and cr*p builds up inside. Add bearing debrie, and debrie from the regrind, and unless the ball bearings are removed (have to be spark eroded) you will never guarantee to get it thoroughly clean, even with a jet wash, and ultrasonic cleaning.

Mark.

Damo STi

mark it wasnt hot water its a bath they soak in degrease fluid they then dry it off strip all off it and clean them all bit by bit [ thats whatb they told me thou} as for crank i expect that to be done without me having to tell them about it as its there job to inspected and iix then clean surley i shouldnt have to tell them that?

R19KET

Danian,

If they've tried cleaning the block, and heads, let alone the crank, after a bigend failure, in a "parts washer", IMO they are wasting their time.

Personally, I would "skip" the crank before re-using a reground one, that hadn't had the plugs (ball bearings) removed.

I hope the garage sort it out for you.

Mark.

moonraker

Damo, like Mark says, if the crank needed grinding, it should really have been binned. A new one (for my WRX) was only £330 plus blood. Very cheap i thought, for what your getting anyway!!

Sounds like you need to get hold of a new crank, std size bearings, and get all the plugs out of the heads and blocks and clean them like mad!! It sounds like the cause this time was the muck left in the crankshaft after the grind, and their fault.

Si.

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

David - Good shout !! but cam belt tensioners don't put particles in the oil.

My opinion : You cannot grind cranks on a 2.0 Turbo - it doesn't work for any length of time. We rebuild a number over the course of time where the crank has been ground ' about six weeks ago, what can have happened? '

David API

PS Mark is telling it the way it should be above it it doesn't get done as he suggests it's a waste of time. It cannot be done at all haphazardly.

David_Wallis

David..

sorry my oversite, only skimmed over quickly as I was on my way out..

That can happen if the oil cooler isnt replaced IMHO.

Sale of goods act?
David

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

Right again DW, this looks like the best efforts of someone who doesn't usually build engines but has been in the motor trade xx years......

David API

greasemonkey

Why is it that whenever someone mentions "their mate's garage" at the beginning of a post, you just know what's coming next...?

R19KET

I'm afraid to say that some of the stories I've been told about lately, are absolutely shocking, and the number of problems, and the causes are getting worse, not better.

Of all the problems, failure after a bigend failure re-build, is by far the most common.

Of all the engine failures to rectify, IMHO, bigend bearing failure re-builds are the worst to do.

If EVERY part of the engine isn't stripped down (EVERYTHING) and meticulously cleaned, and inspected, with parts such as the oil/water cooler replaced, before the re-build, chances are, you'll be hitting your head against a brick wall.

I'm afraid that there's no such thing as a "cheap" re-build, if you expect it to be done correctly.

On average, an "engine builder" will quote circa 40 hours for a full re-build, this will include stripping, and re-building the heads. It does not include removing, and refitting the engine. Parts are on top.

You cannot strip, clean, inspect, crack test, measure all the parts, do a dummy build using "Plasti-gauge", strip, measure, replace or rectify issues, do another dummy build, plasti-gauge, strip, check everything is now correct, and then do a final build in circa 15 hours !

In 15 hours, you can throw together a bunch of parts, and keep your fingers crossed.

You cannot assume that just because you are using new parts, either Subaru, or an alternative, that they will all fit together, with the correct tolerances.

Mark.

Damo STi

my mate is very very good at hus job guys, many people take there cars too him M3, Evo's,Scoobs, etc i trust him and seen the block etc all you could eat your dinner off, every part i bought was brand new and if available it was upgraded i.e oil pump, new oil medein etc, ive spent ovet £2000 in parts etc so id say it aint the cheap way im doing it,

cheers damian

Damo STi

hi peeps heres the upsdate

the shop is saying i drove car too hard which is bull didnt go over 3000rpm they said i should have heard it sooner in high revs i told that i didnt take it above 3000rpm so how could i hear it, they are trying to palm me off

then engineering shop said the crank was fine when it left and that ive not cleaned i right and used old parts, told him he was full of bull as ive got hundreds of £££ worth of bills to prove all was brand new he went quiet and they said dirt caused no4 to slip and take the rest with it ????

my mate says he thinks the recon conrods are shady and its let no4 slip as head and block was all chemicaly cleaned in bath tankers then high pressure box so it was spot less i can vouch for that.

so dont know where i can go or do now ???

now for the good news, after calling CRD they sold me new crankshaft with all the shells, conrods at a very good price and once again they have pulled me out the ****, big thanks george,

so block etc is away getting cleaned again i pick up head gaskets and that tommorow ive got the crank so rebuild round 2 begins tommorow, any pointers or advice on this to avoild this again how long for run in time what rpm etc what oil any info is help thanks again

Damian

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

Advice- buy a 2.5 from me

MarkA

Damo STi

LoL mate, i could have by now the amount ive spent