Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Had a new Borg and Beck Clutch fitted today by a local mechanic.

Car is very juddery now, more so than when clutch was knackered. V easy to stall now and when off accelerator and in 1st it normally just moves along nicely...now it judders..lots. Really not nice to drive. Same flywheel but rubbed down with emery paper a bit to remove some hot spots.

Had problems finding where earth wire to centre of bulkhead was supposed to be connected, so dont know if its connected? Also gearbox oil about a litre short at the moment as the shops have run out.

What could be the possible problems?

Poorly fitted clutch?
Clutch needs adjustment?
Flywheel needs replacing?
Whats an earthing kit do?

All ideas welcomed.

911

taking your points in turn:
Clutch probably needs some bedding in. B&B are a good quality company.
The clutches are self adjusting. Are you sure the clutch arm spring is back properly?
If the flywheel is groovy then Yes, high spots, probably not. I 'surfaced' my flywheel as you have.
The earth wire goes in a lug located on the top of the box about 600mm from the prop shaft end of the box. To save some time, I attached mine to the one visible starter motor bolt, otherwise its out and under to fish about for the tab.

Realy, i think you have an uneven flywheel, a new pressure plate and a dead true cover, just needs a bit of traffic running in i think.
911

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

911,

Clutch arm spring is presumably okay as pedal feels fine. Surely judder hasn't anything to do with the earthing?

Will try bedding it in also...just really pissed off as I've been helping with the car since 8 this morning and was really looking forward having it back to normal

Bob

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Went for a drive to try and figure out whats wrong.

When the clutch pedal is pressed a little - before bite point, I can feel a stong vibration, whilst driving with RPM anything above 1000 and seeming to increase in intensity.

Clutch feels very on/off similar to what I suspect paddle type clutches feel like. Its a pain to drive.

Still clueless as to the cause.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Any ideas?

Bob

911

That does not sound good.
Lets go deeper.
The clutch cover plate is located on 2 4mm diameter dowls tapped into the flywheel. The cover is punched for 3 dowls, only two are used. Painful as this is, are you both sure you have located the cover on 2 dowls, that is, the cover is located correctly on the flywheel. If vibration increases with speed, could be something is out of balance.
Did you change the thrust bearing? The early WRX type were not as good as the high load capacity Sti ones. The Sti one is obviously best.
The small arm spring will not affect vibration, and the earth will have nothing to do with it.
One last gasp: Take the TMI cooler off (again) remove the arm spring and realy push hard the exposed arm towards the bulkhead just incase the thrust bearing retaining clip is not fully home.
No, final idea, check that the two 10mm diameter dowls that locate the box to the back of the engine are there and fully home. About 3 mm should be exposed.
you sure the arm's piot pin, the large diameter one behind the plug on the diff is fully located home? The end you push in first has a wide slot machined in it to locate to a pin in the gearbox. Remove the plug and see if the pin is well inside the box. This is a small chance as I don't think the plug can be screwed in if it is not.

Can't think of anything else at the moment!
Having just fought a mighty battle with my AP organic clutch I do know how it feels.....
911

vulnax999

iTrader: (7)

How does it feel coming down the 'box / on the overrun?

I got a new Exidy clutch Grp N type fitted, the garage said my flywheel had "high spots" and they flatted it off with an abrasive stone.

Now, whenever engine speed and gearbox speed do not closely match - i.e. on gentle take off or on changing down, then severe judder, so much my b2 wobbles back and forward like mad, and cables in dash knock about.

Seems like same problem.
Initial look-see says need a new flywheel... may as well get it lightened when it is being skimmed and re-use your own!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Vulnax999: Yes the judder is violent. Shakes the seats dash etc. Clutch feels very on/off in 1st, 2nd and reverse. Judders also on change down, although not as badly as taking off in 1st or reverse. Would a knackered flywheel result in vibration through pressing the clutch pedal slightly (when revs above 1000RPM)? Whats the cost of lightening the fly or just skimming?

911: Thanks for the info. Its such a pain having to take it all to bits when we dont know whats wrong. Will do your checks before taking it to bits again and you never know might find something amiss. Spoke to local Subaru garage and they dont seem to think it could be the fitting and say they always change flywheels when doing clutches and they seem certain thats whats wrong. I'm not totally convinced though as its a different kind of judder than most people experience...it does it all the time...hot and cold...from start to as many miles as you drive. We change the trust bearing also. Its not even the sort of judder you can live with. May have to take it to bits again next weekend and change fly anyway to see if that solves the problem.

Bob

Mal26

Bob 5 - I fitted a Borg and beck clutch kit to my 1995 WRX wagon and the garage had the flywheel skimmed by a professional machining company at the same time. From the time of fitting a strong vibration was felt through the clutch pedal on depressing one inch which would increase with engine speed - just like you descibe! I tried to bed the clutch in but the vibration got worse and eventually I got the car back in the garage. I had to buy a new clutch (not B+B) which has worked fine since with no judder or vibration.

i have sent the old clutch back to the company I purchased it from who have sent it to B + B to test for manufacturing defects. certainly the clutch plate did not look of even thickness when removed. Awaiting B+B verdict.

This has cost me ££££!

My advice would be:

1. Dont use B+B - cheap clutch and you pay for what you get!!
2. If judder was very severe prior to new clutch, may be better off with new flywheel or professional skimming! Subaru dealers usually fit new flywheel with every clutch.

You didn't say whether your car is an import or UK version but of interest B+B when I phoned them would not sell there clutch to fit to an import car - said they will not with stand the extra power of these vehicles!

Hope you get to the bottom of the problem - it annoyed me for months as like you say you expect a nice smooth judder free driving experience.

Chaddy

Had, and still have judder on mine, Subaru replaced everything, including the flywheel, and 5000 miles later, the judder was back. Does anyone know the real permanent cure ?

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I dont believe it to be the clutch itself but either the fitting or flywheel has had it. I'm not driving the car at the mo but am looking at buying a lightened flywheel and uprated clutch as I have plans for bigger turbo etc and Borg & Beck was just a quick fix.

Almost sure its the flywheel.

gazza19800sti1

no fix really just get used to it just imagine your driving a 2.0 litre with a turbo producing 260 bhp on average and its four wheel drive , which is twice as much load on clutch , especially as we all know some times we clutch to gettires lit up noting like a standar clutch and flywhell can stand this , only conclusion is spend 1200 notes or over on a triple plate .....

Andy McCord

My Exedy which was fitted by prosport was horrendous at juddering for the first 5/600 miles, but its settled down now, the flywheel was not skimmed either. The severity of the judder was extremely violent, shaking the whole car when leaving prosport. give it time bob.

R19KET

How much free play does the peddle have ? It's possible that it's not fully releasing.

Check it, because it isn't uncommon for this to happen on a new clutch.

Mark.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

There's a groupbuy on Exedy uprated clutch + lightened flywheel at the mo

dj219957

Not much help but when i changed the clutch in my classic the judder was really bad - it was shaking the car to bits and has caused lots of rattles.
It is fixed now by skimming the flywheel and fitting a better quality clutch.
Drives like a dream now.
Andy

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

blimey gazza. Dug up an old one here.

Was the flywheel as I expected.

In the future I will always have the flywheel skimmed before fitting a new clutch.


Bob