JasonR

Hi
Is there anybody who is running a front mount intercooler on their wrx impreza,what brand is it,how much difference does it make, and do u loose any low down power because of the longer intake piping.
thanks
Jason.

Bajie

You'll need to strengthen the engine internals.
Change the ECU for one which can be mapped to accommodate the extra turbo lag due to the piping and possibly get a bigger turbo. Possum Link or MoTeC should do it.
No. I don't have an FMI but I did like the look of the Apexi unit though perhaps HKS is the better way to go.
To date I have only seen two Subaru's in the UK with FMI. Which is a shame as it gives the car the aggressive look it needs.

NITO

Hi Jason,

I'm running an HKS FMIC with std internals and Ecu. On the std turbine the FMIC made a noticeable improvement, particularly over 4k revs. I wouldn't say there was any more lag with my setup (I use an electronic boost controller which self compensates for pressure loss to a degree) but throttle response was slightly blunted. There are also more surges of overboost if you back of say mid bend then punch it through you get a whallop of power but the car will overboost up to 0.1 bar in extreme circumstances. It's not a problem with the Electronic boost controller as it has a programmable safety cut, but I can't comment on what effect it would have with an aftermarket ecu or whether with the std boost control solenoid the car would be more laggy due to pressure drop.

In all I would definately recommend it to anyone in terms of performace. It gives a definite improvement, and intake temperatures are so much less. I've only been monitoring temps for the last few weeks where ambients are pretty low anyway, but the most I've really seen are about 2 degrees over ambient. I've been getting intake temps of less than 8 degrees measured at the intake on the manifold. On the Clang n ball a couple of weeks ago they were 3 degrees even at full pelt! If you touch the pipe that comes out of the turbo and then the pipe that goes to the manifold it's amazing, one is pretty hot and the other is stone cold. I would imagine that the main benefits it would have over top mount intercoolers would become more evident in the summer.

The main factors to consider when buying one though is it's location, it can be extremely vulnerable in the front bumper, particularly if your car spends lots of time in car parks etc where any dopey driver with a towbar could do some serious damage. The slightest collision on the front bumper could probably damage it as there is literally no space for it to go. The FMIC is also an absolute pig to fit so would probably cost you a pretty hefty amount unless you did it yourself. The bumper needs quite a bit of modifying, hacking back to fit it in.

If performance is your main criteria and you've got lots of future mods planned (ie going internal and running more than 1.2-1.3bar boost) then go for it, any seriously modded scoob should have one, for maximising engine safety due to lower temps as well as the performance increases, otherwise it's a lot of money and it's pretty exposed for an everyday car.

hope this helps,
Nito

carlos_hiraoka

Nito, i thought the HKS FMIC was a "bolt on" item, is there a lot of work to be done in order to fit it?.....also will the car still have the air conditioner.

Finally after you have place the FMIC don't the oil temps raise???


Carlos H.

NITO

Hi Carlos,

You're right, I should have mentioned the higher oil temps, forgot to mention this.

I've seen my oil temps increase by approx 10-15 degrees since fitting the fmic. My oil temp used to be around the 80 mark, the average is now about 90, while as before I saw a maximum of 92 degrees after a hard thrash, I've seen temps of 105 degrees with the fmic. At this time of year it's not a problem, but I will be fitting an oil cooler before the summer...certainly before any track days, and it's recommendable for anyone with an fmic to fit an oil cooler too! Water temps will also increase slightly as most of the original radiator is covered by the air con condenser and the fmic although some airflow still gets to it from the top grille. On the rolling road with the select monitor plugged in water temps were 87 degrees.

With regards to fitting, yes it is a bolt on item but there is a fair bit of work to do to get it on. Most of the work involved is in removing the front bumper, which is quite time consuming. The fmic itself fits in front of the air con condenser so you still retain this. The bumper needs to have a fair portion removed from it to allow the fmic to fit. The front bumper support also needs slight modifying.

Apparently earlier Scoobs require some more modifying to the inner wing to fit the fmic pipework but I don't think it's anything too involved!

rgds
Nito

Mike Tuckwood

We have already developed an uprated radiator to allow better (water) cooling, that has both increased capacity and a far more efficient core matrix to be used when fitting a FMIC.

We are imminently starting work to produce our own FMIC in conjuction with the manufacturer of our own TMIC.

This will use technology, expertise and products used in WRC cars for maximum performance, Nito's summation of FMIC bennefits and side effects are spot on.

If you are not going 'the whole hog' condsider a (our) Up-rated Top Mount Intercooler?


Mike.

JasonR

Hi Nito
Thanks for all that info it was a great help, but i have some more question my wrx is a 2000 model can u still use the fog lights or do u have to take them out and put sti fog light covers on, and what sort of blow off valve do u use. What size is the intercooler because i tried to find them on the hks japan web site with no luck.

thanks again
Jason

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Jason,

Not wishing to pre-empt Nito, but I know he has a UK MY98 with PIAA driving lamps and uses an HKS dump valve.

As for HKS info in English, worth looking at:

NITO

Hi Jason,

The HKS won't affect your foglights. The size of the core in mm is 600x301x65. I use an HKS dumpvalve but I'll more than likely change it for a quiter recirculating one. It really doesn't matter which one you use though, you could even keep the std one, I would only I broke mine

Hope this helps,
Nito

GavinP

[QUOTE]Originally posted by NITO:

..but the most I've really seen are about 2 degrees over ambient. I've been getting intake temps of less than 8 degrees measured at the intake on the manifold... On the Clang n ball a couple of weeks ago they were 3 degrees even at full pelt


Nito,

Are you sure about those figures...?

I'm running a RS Legacy air/water chargecooler heat exhanger in my WRX with a custom radiator, five litre reservoir and heavy duty pump (double flow of standard)- and it doesn't get close to this.... The turbo has a heat jacket as well which further drops the temperature under the bonnet.

In the last week (very cold ambient), I can keep the intake air under 10 degrees (off boost) so I'm very intrigued (normal roads/legal speeds). The TD05H turbo (MY94) would also produce less heat than the standard blower in the later UK models.

Depending on who you believe, the heat transfer between water and aluminium is between 4 and 14 times better than air...

I'm measuring the temperature using a K-type thermocouple mounted as close as possible to the throttle body.

What's the secret ?

Thanks

Gavin

[This message has been edited by GavinP (edited 06 March 2001).]

NITO

Gavin,

I'm not running the teeny TD04H turbo but a rather large HKS GT hybrid turbine at a relatively low (for it's size) 1.15bar of boost. The temp is measured in the intercooler pipework going into the manifold. I have no reason to doubt my temp gauge. On the clang n ball ambient temps were about 0 degrees so three degrees is perfectly plausible, remember the fmic is in the front bumper and at those speeds with freezing outside temps there's a lot of airflow. As I said, in recent weather I've been getting average temps of about 8 degrees which is 2 degrees less than your setup. I don't know how efficient your system is but I bet if you touch your intercooler/chargecooler it'll be pretty hot after a run. There is much more heat soak in the position of your setup (right above the engine, (hot air rises) and next door to the turbocharger, which will undoubtedly increase temps regardless of how well it works.

No secret, just a decent intercooler in the ideal location for it which is why wrc cars run with them there as well as the evo! It's also one of the most popular mods for Turbo cars in Japan! It's a shame, I never did any temp testing with the old turbo and top mount i/c but I suspect they would have been MUCH higher! I'm looking forward to the summer to see how it copes!

Nito

firefox

Howdy..

I've had below ambient on my setup

Beat that! lol

J.

ps - measured using K types, with dual channel digital meter

Mo

Nito,

HKS do do a recirc kit for their dumpvalve, although I have not had a chance to fit it yet, I sourced from <B>DRMotorsport</B> after the 'leading' HKS resellers told me that the kit did not exist. It costs £12

NITO

Hi Mo,

I have that attachment, it's a replacement fin but it didn't work properly as it needs to be re-machined (I'll get round to making a new one at some point)to a wider diameter to fit the std hosing, it was originally designed for the mitsubishi eclipse but its an HKS USA part.

Nito

PBH888

I have a MY00 with and APS RT spec front mount intercooler fitted, it is a fantastic piece if kit and looks excellent in the engine bay. At the moment I have full exhaust mods and use a Blitz DSBC, boost controoler with VF23 turbo on the way. Like Nitto I have boost limited to 1.2bar as I am running the standard ECU.

RobAnderson

I was intrigued as to just how vulnerable the FMI was to sustaining damage bearing in mind its exposed location and how much a replacement would cost should the unit sustain terminal damage. Thus, out of pure interest, over christmas I decided to stuff the front end into a dry-stone wall and successfully holed the intercooler-I can't tell you how pleased I was that my experiment was a success!
Anyway, if you do need a direct replacement it's around £750 (and is apparently an off-the -shelf HKS part aside from the full kit)-just worth bearing in mind,as it is so vulnerable.
Also,the other thing worth mentioning that noone has addressed so far is the desirability/necessity of fitting a heavy-duty wire mesh in front of the intercooler as the speed at which the core-fins will become damaged, or worse the core holed (see above), bearing in mind the position of the intercooler, by small stones,small furry animals,OAP's,etc.,is pretty rapid,(not that wire mesh seems to afford much protection against dry stone walls.)