john banks

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...=179486&Page=7

As requested new thread.

Opinions please on whether the fit a new Phase II tensioner or to fit a Phase I which is thought by some/many to be more robust.

What do I need to fit a Phase I tensioner to the Phase II engine?

A 30000 mile old Phase II tensioner reused nearly cost me the demise of a pukka engine rebuild

One aftermarket specialist routinely fits a new cambelt tensioner with a belt change, all the rest I've quizzed do not.

Was I just unlucky?

The tensioner appeared to work fine when fitted, and had been tensioned slowly in a vice over 15 mins. The service manual recommends 3 minutes. Some people just sqaush them

David_Wallis

well I know the cambelt length is different.

David

Adam M

thats interesting.

I had a phase 2 block and phase 1 heads, wich length belt did I need and which type of tensioner.

Pavlo

the block doesn't affect it. The tensioner sits on a subframe casting that bolts onto the left block half. to change you would need the casting, the tensioner, and if not the roller itself, certainly the little off centre pivot shaft it sits on, and of course the tensioner.

I would guess the original belt is now toast.

Paul

scoobyboy

if it is the tensioner that works vertical this type should not be pushed back in a vice over any period of time as it knackers it. it needs to be pressed back in the way it operates i.e vertical there is a bullitin from subaru about this as it causes it to lose tension the only one that can be pushed back in a vice is the horizontal type.

P20SPD

iTrader: (1)

Education time please, can someone show me a pic of what it looks like please

Thanks

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

The belt is different ????????

I sent David pics of both. Im sure he can post them.
To swap, you do need all the bits. Ally subframe, roller/pivot bolt, and tensioner.
If it was me, I would be quite happy using sec hand parts. As Ive said, the tensioners dont normally give any bother. My own car is still using the original one, and has had several belts, and 130k+ miles.
Its the same type of tensioner used on a few Jap cars, a long thin hydraulic plunger.


[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 10/07/2003 22:00:21]

[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 10/07/2003 22:07:48]

S,M,G

I did mess about with this a little, my own my00 v6 did suffer a slipped belt when useing the engine for hard braking. I have used the latest type tensioner with the extra idler wheel to the right and used the early shorter belt, my snap on belt tension kit gave a reading of max tension. There was no belt wine as you get with a belt that is over tight, has done 6000 miles and put to the test so fare all is well. Not saying this is the only way to go, just that it has worked well for me.
Steve.

David_Wallis

steve if thats the snap on belt tension measuring kit i think it is I got a refund for mine recently as it was poo.. snap on man agreed..

Lets sort this as there are pistons, valves, money at stake.... Im inclined to say I agree with steve.. but he is paying if he's wrong

Pavlo

I have a gates belt tensometer at work....

paul

S,M,G

All the tensioners i have here including the latest type, all have the same part number. To avoid confusion these are the second design of tensioner not the type stevie speaks of.
David the kit i have has about 5 or 6 parts to it cost about £250, i only use it as a double check when there is any dout. Does this sound like the same kit?.
Steve.

Eprom

Hi John
Just had a 45k service on MY99 and pointed out to the dealer there was a noise from the tensioner, sounded just like your sound file only not as pronounced, they replaced the belt but not the tensioner, 4 weeks later this had to be replaced due to me still complianing, they confirmed the tensioner, however noise was still present but reduced. Now car is coing back in to have the tensioner replaced again 3 weeks after the other one. This had been requested by regional service manager after i had a word with IM. He will then come and have a listen to the problem.
All i can say that it is definitely the tensioner. Just wondering now if they have changed the design or had a bad batch. Its in next Wednesday for its second in 7 weeks.

T-uk

there is a bullitin from subaru about this as it causes it to lose tension the only one that can be pushed back in a vice is the horizontal type.

, is this a fairly recent discovery? .

I compressed the tensioner as we have always done, in a bench vice, just much slower to avoid any risk.usually it takes approx 2min but I actually took 10-12 this time thinking it was safer with such an expensive engine , I also did it the 2min way for an accident damaged MY99 a few years ago, which has since done 30000+miles and quite a few track days, guess I was lucky.

knew I should not have got involved with the fitting of old tensioners,idlers and release bearings with this high spec engine!



[Edited by T-uk - 7/13/2003 1:41:56 PM]

Pavlo

Would be interesting to know why, perhaps using a valve spring in line would help

Paul

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Why have to worry about it. Use the old one, its cheaper and gives no trouble, and can be compressed as many times as you like with no worries.

Pavlo

then I will use the old one, luckily I have one on my current engine.

will it require a new cambelt?

Paul

scoobyboy

it's only the later type where it's all built in that needs to be done in a press the old thin cylinder type (the better one in my opinion) that can be done in a vice

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Generally with timing belts, once they have been used, you are not supposed to re-tension them. ( ie. use old ones )
In saying that, I have re-used mine once or twice with no problems.
Better to be safe though, if you dont know the milage on the belt, or if perhaps there is 20k+ on it...just replace it.

Leslie

I was told by a knowledgeable person that the old tensioner is definitely more reliable. The new one is more prone to failure often because the method of compressing it is not done properly and causes problems.

Les

JamieMacdonald

Quick question. I mentioned this in another post but hopefully someone here can clear this up...

What type of tensioner should be fitted to a UK MY97?

Had it replaced last year (leaking) by Subaru dealer - 194+VAT.
Cambelt was also done as it was due a change (45k).

It's now noisy and going in next week to be replaced (again).

Opinions?

Cheers,
Jay

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

Also answered in the other thread. A MY97 should be fitted with the early type. The new ones only came about on phase 2 engines from 99 onwards.

JamieMacdonald

Cheers Stevie, it just didn't make sense to me. So I take it there's no way an early tensioner should be £194+VAT? Maybe dealers 'consider' the later type to be an 'improved' part... Either way I will be having words next week!
Cheers again, Jay.

scoobyboy

no they didn't i changed a 97my sport belt today and that had the all in one type tensioner

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

New to me. There are so many model variations, it can be hard to, tell what should be fitted to what.

Eprom

John
Just had my second timing belt tensioner fitted this morning, 2 in seven weeks, see earlier thread to MY99. However it still makes the same noise as the last one, this had been fitted at a main dealer and they confirm that it is this, that is still making the noise.
Does anyone know for sure which tensioner was fitted to the MY99.
They also said that this is the latest design, the old ones never had this problem.
Can any good engine builders confirm this.
Now awaiting inspection from I.M.
Think i would fit the old type.

JamieMacdonald

Eprom - see above ^

It *appears* anything from at least MY97 onwards can have the later tensioner fitted, but I am yet to see a definitive answer i.e. MY96 onwards had new tensioner... Maybe it varies but looks like my MY97 had the newer style (ar$e [img]images/smilies/mad.gif[/img]) therefore I think it is safe to say the MY99 will certainly have the new tensioner.

J