David_Wallis

Anybody know of any?

think the term "throttle kicker" is a foreign one, but basically I need to be able to open the throttle say 20% for Antilag..

Thoughts?

So far had suggested...

Fly by wire throttle.
Solenoid and cable on cruise control.

Anymore??

David

Pavlo

put a solenoid straight on the throttle body.

cruise control cable and "choke" puller is rather crude

Other option is not to use a kicker at all, but use a high flow idle control valve, again your supplier has these. The autronics can activate a kicker, open a valve (possibly even varying amounts).

Another route is to use a valve (high flow idle valve) to feed some cold fresh air into exhaust manifold to burn with the remaining fuel. This isn't quite the "gas turbine" thing, but can help, and will also reduce the EGT (for the turbo but not exhaust valves) when using the antilag.

Paul

Tim Bomford

Email MOSI off MLR as he has it on his EVO VII thats in the for sale section. Awesome! Such a noise and rips your guts out as it takes off.

Tim

David_Wallis

cheers tim.

MorayMackenzie

I though CarlosH's original solution was rather effective... he used a bicycle gear selector and cable to operate the second cable cam on the throttle linkage.

cswminty

So how does it work ?

does it keep the throttle open by increasing the revs at gear change to prevent the lag ??

I know some cars use it to maintain engine speed when the A/C is switched on. Is this the same thing ??

Pavlo

anti-lag system still needs air (along with other stuff which is covered various threads/sites), so when antilag is on, you need either:

throttle bypass like an idle control valve

or actual throttle opened an amount either electronically (solenoid) or manually (cable).

The nice thing about the electronic method, is you can set the anti lag to only be active under certain circumstances and open the throttle accordingly, but it varies from ECU to ECU.

Paul

cswminty

APEXi Power FC is the intended donor for scooby so hopefully this would be an option to prevent the lag i will have with a TD05.

Pavlo

It's a little more complicated I'm afraid. It's not just open the throttle on gear change. The anti-lag is a whole different operating mode for the ECU, I don't believe the Power FC has this.

By firing the ignition about 20-30 degrees after top dead centre, you fire burning gas out the exhaust ports. There is also modulation of the ignition so you fire only 50% of the time (for instance), rpm dependancy, throttle position dependancy etc etc.

The main function is to give boost between changes and when off throttle, there isn't much power, as the ignition/combustion is totally screwy.

Paul

MorayMackenzie

"The main function is to give boost between changes and when off throttle, there isn't much power, as the ignition/combustion is totally screwy."



Of course, if there was any significant engine torque being produced even when you have lifted right off, the car would be pretty dangerous to drive... you would have to call it "relentless", in a non positive way. Its also worth mentioning that the vacuum brake servo assistance will go the shape of the pear when the ALS is enabled as it relies on manifold vacuum on overrun to provide the brake "power assistance".

Scoty

Pavlo

Moray,

point i was making (not very well) is that antilag isn't a magic fix for everyday driveability with a big(ish) turbo. So you can't use the antilag function to get boost and power at 2000rpm at full throttle. Although what I don't know, is if you phase the antilag out at say 2500rpm, if the boost will be maintained at a high level then normal (ie boost leads to boost).

Paul

Steve3dr

With my Anti Lag i use a EscortWRC valve which is a 1.5" dia valve which moves upwards about 1" and modded much larger airways to and from the valve, so u got a air bypass of 1"x1.5" which is plenty.

Cost me about 200quid new.

For a cosworth, but its jus a simple 2 wire open/close up/down electromagnet, so not hard to adapt for other cars.

On mine it replaces the ISCV (i jus have to put up with slightly poor cold start performance), but its easily possible to fabricate a seperate place to mount the valve, and some simple pipework coming from before the throttle n ending after the throttle.

Its easy, and well worth it. Id never have a turbo car without ALS now i dont think.

Steve

Steve3dr

""you can't use the antilag function to get boost and power at 2000rpm at full throttle""

Yes you can. If you have good enough ALS, and its switched on, you will be able to put foot to the floor at 2000rpm and the car will boost and shoot off like a bloody rocket. Ive had ALS for about 2.5yrs now. When wou switch it on the boost wont magicly rise to 25psi, but if you give it any boost, let off, even down to 2000rpm, boot it again and it will be on boost immediatley n you away.

Pavlo

sounds interesting. I can get a large pneumatic flapper valve for about £100, but they are all metal, large and heavy. I would be interested to know more about the "escort wrc" valve, like approx overall size.

Available from Ahmed B I assume? If not, where can I get one? Any pictures anywhere?

actually, the one I was looking at was a pneumatically operated one, not much good for this application (giant dump valve basically)

Paul

[Edited by Pavlo - 5/21/2003 3:36:09 PM]

David_Wallis

Clint on turbo sport was saying a good rule of thumb is a hole the size of your thumb.. he says they bore out the iscv

Pavlo

now that is a rule of thumb!

Steve3dr

No offence to the bloke, but id not use ahmed banjo for nowt. And AntiLag is more race/rally car than road car still, and ahmed has very little to do with serious race cars.

Bloke u need to speak to is Paul Hills (hes jus set up on his own, hes "king" of the racecar mappers, used to work for mountune, n just left AdvancedEngineResearch, the people who do the MG touring cars) cant remember number, maybe ask Lowman Jones for his number), or Bluesprint (01621 744881), im 100% they can both get u a valve. Mountune can too (as they make em) but they will cost a bit more.

You CANT jus bore out std ISCV, as there nothin to bore out as such, you can bore out the ports to and from it, but not the valve itself. You can modify the std ISCV for higher airflow to make a "mild" anti lag valve, which i once had a cossie and it SOUNDS more viscous than i ever heard on a scoob or EVO, and the performance WAS good. BUT nothing compares to a proper WRC AntiLag valve like i got now, as its MUCH bigger, the outside of the valve body looks identical, but its over twice the size inside than even a modded ISCV. Like i said, valve is a good 1.5inch and moves up n down a good inch or so. A modded ISCV is about a CM at best...

Bigger the valve, more the airflow, more viscous n effective the ALS (tho mapping matters too, can be more and less wild on the same size valve).

Ive never had any part wear out on me yet (ie turbo etc etc) and i use it constantly, and had same turbo for nearly 2yrs i think. I think the fact my boost is 30psi held does more damage to the turbo than the anti lag does you know...

Steve3dr

i jus remembered, i have pics of a normal ISCV and a WRC one to show u the difference size valves inside them.

il have to find them tho, gimme a while....

David_Wallis

cheers.. would be good..

Thought Ahmed used to work for Ford Motorsport??

I heard he was still involved with high power engines..

David

Scoty

Edited incase I confused the issue



[Edited by Scoty - 5/21/2003 7:46:35 PM]

Steve3dr

Heres the pics--

Std valve, the bit protruding DOESNT move at all, the only bit is the circled bit which opens and shuts, its less than a cm in diameter


WRC ALS valve, the entire diameter circle u can see there moves up and down on that rod that protrudes that you can see. Its big!


Scotty, thas not a modded std one as such, they use the same outer casing, but the ENTIRE innards are totally different.

Oh yea, ahmed was at ford motorsport, but left very long time ago, and to be honest things have moved on, and IMO he hasnt, most cossie road people still worship him as a god (dont see bigtime cossie racers using him for mapping tho), but cossie road cars are 10years+ behind the times, jus havent moved on, apart from a few cars which have now.

Thats why until about 6mths ago everyone with ROAD cars was building 500bhp RS500spec engines as the "ultimate" cossie lump, even tho its far far from it in nearly every way.

I have dyno sheets of 730bhp cosworth road cars from scandinavia, 500bhp is nothing much over there, 580-600 is your average powerful one, upto 700+, and the price? No more than it costs to do a 500bhp really, and no less reliable (less boost too as not using a RS500 T4 which is far too small for 500bhp really)


[Edited by Steve3dr - 5/21/2003 7:46:03 PM]

David_Wallis

looks interesting that valve.. May have to have a look and see what I can come up with..

David

David_Wallis

opps double post

[Edited by David_Wallis - 5/21/2003 7:55:39 PM]

Pavlo

Thanks very much Steve, some interesting commentary. I think I must have seen you post on the MLR, something about the big turbo only just catching on.

Paul

Steve3dr

As im feeling incredibly helpful today i jus drew a diagram to explain how that valve sits and how it stops n starts the bypass...



Pavlo- Umm, no, dont think so you know, ive only posted a couple of times on MLR so far. Mightve tho, i have officially the worst memory ever, lol.

Steve

[Edited by Steve3dr - 5/21/2003 8:12:09 PM]

carlos_hiraoka

David YHM