Caronte

Did you have any engine problems so far with the PPP?

orbv

no

Fizz

iTrader: (1)

yes.... it's still not quick enough

Farls

Nope! done 16k miles all is fine

Fulham71

still too quiet & slow !
Changed to Motec & decat

MarkB1

am confused with the whole thing, have a MY01 classic wagon with PPP, when I spoke to Prodrive I got a blank responce and a "do you really want to go faster sir" when asked what more can you do to improve "overall" performance and torque he said sorry cant help.

Its great in 3rd at around 80mph @ 3.5K rpm but other gears just dont seem to have the same grunt. Looking at ditching for a Power
Engineering remap, but still keeping the PPP exhaust, and a reasonable mpg

What I cant understand is that if PPP relies on fooling the ECU, rather than a remapp, how can it possibly not invalidate the warrinty. Surely a remapp of the ecu must be more benifcial to the engine. Maybe some of the tunning guys out there can answere this one.

[Edited by MarkB1 - 1/22/2003 7:28:38 PM]

Caronte

My concerns are slightly different.

The fact that the signal to the MAF is modified gives me some scary thoughts.
If you look at the thread about the STI7 PPP you can see clearly on the graphs how the boost reading from the ecu fluctuates up and down. I wonder how the fuel levels are adjusted on such high ups and downs. Besides some time ago one person from Prodrive wrote on this BBS that he would have been VERY careful on exeeding 5000 rpm on PPP'd cars. Then i looked back at the PPP thread and I noticed that thye PPP started modifying the signal exactly from 5000rpm on.

On the Italian BBS (subaru) more than one person have had the 2nd piston blown due to the PPP. This is aggravated by the use on 95ron petrol. BUt given the fact that petrol is not always the same and octanes and quality can vary vastly from petrol station to petrol station, this is starting to get me worried about the integrity of my engine (01 PPP+ full decat).

A.

hades

I understand that prodrive are moving to the ECUTEK remap for the STi8, and I think that is the case also for the MY03 WRX. IIRC, they also use the ECUTEK for the PPP in the USA.

Of course, the fact that prodrive are moving away from the piggyback to ECUTEK may be something to do with cost/simplicity etc rather than it being a better solution, draw your own conclusions.

Caronte

Well I don't believe it's just a matter of cost/semplicity.
I would tend to judge it a better ingeneeristic approach.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Carante,
AFAIR Mike Wood explained that the graph fluctuations only represented the pressures and wern't actual pressures in the induction.
Two other pionts, and I appologise as I am not trying to pick holes The signal comes from the MAF sensor to The ECU. PPP plays with the boost pressure it reads and gives a fluctutating signal to stop boost spikes.(using more fuzzy logic rather than PID logic)
Subaru engines are quite powerful and some are bound to let go and yes putting more strain on possibly a weak part so can you blame PPP or the weak part.
The main piont is if it is PPP'd it's WARRENTEE'D

Tony

Ps do agree a EcuTek full map would be better!!! IMHO Also not related to,working for or buttlicking IM/prodrive

Caronte

Hi Tony.

In my case i'm not under warranty, because it's an import and at the time it was the only solution aside a motec that i didn't want.

But AFAIK the piggyback receives trhe signal from the maf. If the signal is equal to a value close to the fuel cut it alters it dropping it. when it has dropped it allows the signal to grow again till it reaches once more that level. This is why , i think , the graph looks so much with ups and downs.

A.

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Caronte,
Now I see what you mean sorry for my poor explaination but its this keyboard, keeps writing cr4p this time in the morning LOL I probably just miss-interpeted some 3rd hand info.
The piggyback relies on the original map, so the mid range overfeuling cant be addressed (a performance issue not engine blower) but will be cured with EcuTeK IMHO

Tony

MarkB1

Would it be easier to settle the pros and cons of PPP and other upgrades if the performance specialists ie TSL/Power Engineering/Well Lane etc etc and Prodrive produced a table with the merits/non merits and comparisons of each upgrade type,including the issue of why only PPP did not invalidate the warrinty so that the non technical people, my included had a clearing understanding of why we were putting our hard earned into one type of upgrade.

Pete Croney

The PPP is the only system that is warrantied, because its the only one sold by Subaru. It doesn't mean its the best and it doesn't mean its not safe. Its their product so they warranty it.

http://www.ecutek.co.uk/frame_tuning.html explains some of the alternatives and how they compare.

WRX-Driver

Caronte. Where can i find this italian forum?
Daniel

ukhuskynox

No engine problems so far with my UK300 PPP, But ask me again later as its in the garage because it sounds like crap when starting from cold

Caronte

Hi Daniel,
Here you are

http://www.webclic.it/forumnew/default.asp

A,

MarkB1

well had to ring Prodrive and ask a few questions, like is the PPP the best way of getting more performance out of the engine, does it effect engine durability,why is boost clamped etc etc, and the answere was NO COMMENT!!!, can you believe it so I pushed harder and got the responce what U worried about your engines warrantied, then the big one why are you going over to ecuteck, responce "thats our business". So thanks Mr Prodrive its a take our £2000 cash but dont ask questions. My coments based on thier responce are ask what your getting and what does it really do to the engine.Dont just accept the line that it retains your warrinty.

Caronte

now i understand why i takes so long to release a PPP.

The add a piggyback ecu and then go flat out till the engine blows.
Then they try different settings and do the same again.

result 15 cars blown, 245000 miles of test.., 2 yrs to develop..

EXCELLENT!

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

This is such a confusing thread

Surely you should just ask some simple questions on how you treat the car ? I have UK300 PPP and have had no problems what so ever and have modded above just PPP, i.e. Dump Valve, ITG, Resonator and still no problems

The questions I would ask are

Do you constantly thrash the pants of your car in every gear and whether it is cold or hot ?

If the answers yes to cold then you are likely to have problems

If the answer is yes when hot then again expect to have problems but after a longer period of time

No mod is infallable and will last differently depending how you drive

I for one don't thrash the nuts of my motor if I'm going to Asda on a saturday morning or going 3 miles to work in the week,

But do use the PPP more on a Sunday Afternoon blast and because of this I don't expect to have any real problems and its under warranty so I don't really care anyway

NICEBLOKE35

comment appreciated ppp but isnt part of the reason of getting the ppp so you can enjoy a fairly worry free safe thrash 'most' of the time ????
i agree with the 'use your nouse' ideology and dont rag the ***** off your car cold etc BUT why pay nealry two big ones to have a 'performance' yes 'performance' car modded by the 'experts' and then tootle around in it 6 days a week??? surely the fact that a scooby is a performance vehicle AND the fact that the ppp costs 2Kish means we should be able to drive it hard without constantly worrying itll blow ??
paul

[Edited by NICEBLOKE35 - 1/26/2003 9:18:52 PM]

Jza

My PPP went and PPP'd off after 2 weeks!!

Drove the car hard and got the CEL light.

THe garage swapped the chip and everything is now ok.

No problems with it at all since then

Jza

NICEBLOKE35

and so the thread ends lol

Caronte

is there a car preparator on this forum who actually encountered such problems i was describing before?

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Nicebloke,
I have done 3K miles with PPP and it's been on boost most of that time less of course the engine warning up and colling down periods

Caronte,
There has been some issues with Fuel Pumps maybe could cause some of the the problems. But as mine is under warrenty
I won't change it and the fuel pressure regulator, but you should really consider it
SEE HERE


Tony

[Edited by T5NYW - 2/3/2003 4:29:46 PM]

NICEBLOKE35

think ive done about 5k, and at least 2 k with dawes, all seems ok touches wood lol