jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

As above.

Any opinions, experiences and reccommendations wanted good or bad about any electronic boost controllers please.

I was getting an apexi avc-r but it got lost in the post apparantly so now I'm on the hunt for another.

Not bothered what it is really but liked the look of the avc-r.

I have a 94 wrx, full HKS exh, HKS air filter. I wanna run 1 bar.

Also any decent prices?, I've seen some great variations on price with avc-r, anyone know th cheapest?

Many spanks...

James

Turbo_Steve

The factory ECU is still the best control system for the car. Which is why subaru fitted it.

If your car is MY99 onwards then you want a TEK2, TEK 2.5 or TEK3.....this is just a software change to the maps in your ECU. It is 100% reversible and costs about half the price of the APEXi.

If your car is older, why not visit www.scoobyECU.co.uk
These guys will plop an extra little board inside your ECU with new maps on it. Again, this will cost under £200 (excluding fitting, which you can do yourself!) and again should give excellent results.

The only advantage of an external controller is the 'tweakability'. But you really shouldn't need to tweak the car much anyway.

Steve

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

Thanks Steve, my car is a 94wrx.
I'll give the site a try. Need some visual delights in the shape of a nice screen though
I've had different boost controllers on my gti-r's and I like the 'gadget' factor I also enjoy running the car 90% of the time on a standard boost setting and then using a higher setting on occasion, it makes you appreciate the extra power more and I just worry if I go for an ecu set higher all the time I'll want more power and get bored easier.
James

john banks

The AVC-R can gear judge as well, which all except the MY99/00 UK ECUs and apparently the STI 7 ECUs cannot. This does make a nice difference. (ie full boost in any gear with the same overboost in 2nd that you get in 5th).

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

They are expensive, and IMO no matter what anybody says about the std ecu boost control, i say the ebc's are better.
With the ones I have used ( Blitz SBC and DSBC, and HKS EVC 4, and that new one ) They will spool up faster, and give a good steady boost pressure throughout the rev range.
Even in the unlikely event of getting an overboost situation, this can be remedied in a split second, from inside the car, by you. The std ecu may be able to control the boost well ( if programmed correctly ), but it is not as good as an aftermarket boost controller.

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

Thanks guys.

I needed that. Really fancy the avc-r, but trying to do a deal for a HKS EVC 5, which is quite a new one, anyone know how these compare to the apexi?

Gecko Motorsport seems to be the cheapest for a new Apexi avc-r at £400. But I might be able to get the evc 5 for a lot less

James

john banks

Steve, I thought the same until Bob talked me into trying a Phase II reprogrammed ECU with 3 port solenoid with no restrictors, to which acceleration/gear compensation was added later. It has 8*8 mappable maximum and minimum duty cycle with scaling on both axes (TPS vs RPM), same for boost achieve, plus a 4*4 (scalable) gain table. In essence you can get pretty much perfect boost control (to the obvious limits of the turbo/wastegate) in every gear, with as little or as much overboost as you want, full ECU control which holds it within 0.15 PSI of target across the whole RPM range if programmed correctly. It is a world away from the way the cars are setup as standard, and far superior to a Blitz DSBC in terms of control quality except for the lack of cabin adjustment. Not had the opportunity to try the others though, so maybe I don't know what I am missing but I am not sure how it could be improved when it hits what you want so exactly. I know for example the Blitz is not even properly closed loop control though. The HKS EVC has no gear judge. The AVC-R does sound good but with limited part throttle resolution.

[Edited by john banks - 12/31/2002 12:15:19 AM]

Turbo_Steve

I think it depends what you want really.
I bow to john and stevies superior experience, but if you want to keep the car as a daily driver, I would imagine the standard software is better.

For out and out race-tuned action...well....buy a Race ECU

If you want Gadget Factor, James, have a look at the Scooby Dash...to be released soon(ish) this interfaces with your standard, or modifed ECU, costs about half the price of the apexi, does absoloutely nothing for your performance but will tell you pretty much everything the ECU knows about your engine:

BMep
AFR
Knock
Temperature,
Speed
Boost
Ignition Retard
and loads more that I cannot remember after all this vodka.

Everyone gives better advice than me


edited to add:
This is the gadget you want. Oh yes.


Edited to add: Damn I am drunk and have to work tomorrow.

[Edited by Turbo_Steve - 12/31/2002 1:35:10 AM]

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

To the same note John, I have never expereinced the boost control method you refer to, and I think you are still experimenting with it. You also say it is for Phase II ecus ?? Again, we dont all have them, or have access to soemone who can re-program them safely. As much as I would like to be able to do such things, its all over my head.
Its all something that is not easily accesible to us, the general public at present for any car. The in car adjustability with an ebc is a very good bonus too, even though I would prefer max boost all the time , it isnt always the best idea.
One limitation we found with the HKS EVC 5, or whatever it is called, is that it seems to have a 1.5 bar ceiling, which in my opinion, for something so expensive, makes it pretty crap. Having tried it back to back with the HKS EVC 4, which doesnt have such a low boost limit, it was strange that the v5, allowed boost to pick up a lot earlier than the v4. Admittedly we havent experimented much with both, as the v5 was quickly removed as 1.5 bar just isnt enough.
The EVC 4 does seem to do an excellent job, and I would say it is better than the Blitz DSBC.
I am currently using an SBC, but my legacy is only using 15psi still.
They may have no gear judge, ( the EVC 4 is I believe closed loop ), but regardless, their ability to maintain a steady boost level at all times is very impressive. No matter what gear I use, even using the old Blitz SBC on my legacy, i get 15psi, which is what I ask of it.
Same with Michaels Legacy, whatever boost target he sets, the EVC 4 will hit it. Doesnt matter if its 1st gear, or 5th gear. If you ask it for 1.5 bar, you get 1.5 bar.

Id also like to know how to program an ecu for boost control ( My DTA ) as all my attempts so far, have just got me very annoyed. I dont actually understand why they make it so awkward to do something, which in my opinion should actually be very simple. When a solenoid can pulse etc so fast, and an ecu can work so fast, why are restrictors needed to help control the airflow through the solenoid???



[Edited by ustolemyname??stevieturbo - 12/31/2002 2:12:49 AM]

dowser

Steve,

The only way to map boost is to be able to log what duties are being used to achieve what boost. This drove me mad in the early days - not helped by my incompetence, or the bloody 2-port solenoid.

A very methodical, and patient, approach is required...oh, and a 3 port solenoid

Depends how the DTA controls boost I guess, what maps do you have access to?

Richard
PS: James - you fixed your boost creep yet?

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

dowser, I'm 100% it's the HKS d/p. I put the standard solenoid back in place, the only other thing i've changed is the exhaust (inc hks d/p which I believe is where the prob lies).
My remedy is to fit an open neck d/p.

Thing is I doubt many people notice it, if I had a manual boost gauge it would be hard to tell it's doing it (especially if the gauge reads bar pressure and has increments of 0.1bar) but the screen on my digital boost gauge makes it easy to see.

It's not really bad (0.85 - 1.0bar{at rev limit in 4th}) so I can quite confidently think it's the flow characteristics of the d/p design.

Stevieturbo, if the 1.5bar limit is the only prob with it (I only wanna run ~1bar) this should be ok for me then?

I have been offered one for £250, does this sound worth it?

cheers
James

jameswrx

iTrader: (4)

Stevieturbo, see below, everywhere i've looked says it controls boost up to 2.5bar.



INTELLIGENT STEPPING MOTOR

- A CPU is imbedded into the stepping motor. This creates more direct and accurate control as the CPU virtually eliminates lag time between the stepping motor and control module. Thereby increasing linear boost control and stability.

HIGH BOOST CAPABILITY

- A wide range of boost control is possible, from stock boost all the way up to 250 kPa (2.5 bar / 36.25 psi).

EASY BOOST SET-UP

- 2 individual boost levels can be easily set by simply turning the volume ***** of the control module.

2 MODE BOOST SETTING FUNCTION

- Separate A and B boost level settings can be tuned according to the user’s preference and can be switched via the control module or display unit.

PEAK HOLD FUNCTION

- A peak hold function monitors and displays highest boost level attained to aid in tuning and performance. The peak hold valve is simultaneously displayed with the real-time measurement for full data viewing.

SCRAMBLE BOOST FUNCTION

- A scramble boost function is integrated in the display unit. When the SBC button is pressed, an increased boost level is triggered for a selectable amount of time between 0-40 seconds.

WARNING FUNCTION

- When boost levels exceed the warning levels, the display will flash and a buzzer will sound while the boost level returns to its baseline setting to protect possible engine and turbo damage. The warning boost level is also displayed as part of the multi-display data.

STOCK BOOST RETURN FUNCTION

- When the EVC is turned off, the boost level setting will automatically return to stock (baseline boost).

WASTEGATE SELECTION FUNCTION

- Can be used with either internal (swing valve) or external (poppet style) wastegates.

ustolemyname??stevieturbo

iTrader: (1)

The 2.5bar is misleading, same with MAP sensors. That is 2.5 bar from a vacuum. 250Kpa. Normal atmospheric pressure is 1 bar or 100Kpa. Therefor, the boost controller only allows a maximum 1.5 bar positive pressure as we see on our guages.
£250 sounds like good value, as retail is approx £550

As for My DTA ( not fitted to subaru ), basically you give it a MAP target ( Kpa ) and it should try to meet it.
You can adjust valve frequency, PID Prop, PID Int, PID Diff Factors, and Control loop response time.
It sounds like it should be easy, but it also states that restrictors may also be required to limit the flow of air through the solenoid. I do have an idea of what the above are, but just an idea. I am using a subaru solenoid, and have tried both a 2 port, and 3port. Admittedly I havent spent a lot of time trying, as I always end up either gettin wastegate pressure, or hitting the boost cut, with no appearance of ecu control anywhere, so I get fed up and give up.
Im using a bleed valve at present on the car. I guess it just takes time and patience.