spectrum48k

So does it combine both lines to effectively double your download and upload rates ? Looking to buy one soon, probably the Draytek.

mike1210

I believe the better ones can yes at the expense of a little ping time IIRC, of course failover is the other major reason why people would want that in a business enviroment

judgejules

Spectrum, the only way you'll get improved speed by doing this is using a download manager that will split the files its downloading. If you just right click save as files then you will see no benefit at all as the single download stream will come via one link. A download manager will split say a 10mb file into 10 parts and simultaneously download each part. Each of the 10 download requests will go to alternate lines so you'll have 5 downloading on line 1 and 5 downloading on line 2. Obviously torrents would benefit as they split the file.

The way of doing it transparently would be to run a piece of software (slirp rings a bell) on a server with 2x the combined bandwidth your router has. You then proxy via that server and the program on the server will split your requested data down to your router over the two links.

Line 1 -----}___Server____Internet
Line 2 -----}

Another way would be for the ISP to support channel bonding, which I dont think they do any more (since ISDN).

J

ChrisB

We (and a number of our customers) have dual-WAN firewalls but thats more for resilance than overall throughput.

SonicWalls with Enhanced OS support support two WAN connections with failover / load balancing. Obviously if two people kick off big downloads you can max out each connection but a single download doesn't max both lines.

Some ISPs will bond classic (2Mbps) ADSL lines - they are still on my Enta price list but it's not cheap. 4 x 2Mbps with a managed Cisco router is £375+VAT per month.

spectrum48k

To clarify, the reason we're looking to bring one in, in the first place is for the fall-over capability. As for increased throughput - I was just curious - its not a bid deal

I've checked out on unit which allows a lot of customisation as to what gets passed through each WAN port, which could be handy for some stuff eg. allocating one of the WAN ports to VPN, etc...

judgejules

In that case, its ideal. Just make sure you pick two ISPs that are diametrically opposite in terms of carrier or you'll be shooting yourself in the foot before you start

spectrum48k

I was going to go for Demon and Zen. Sound OK ?

If not, have you got any recommendations ?

spectrum48k

how can I check this ?

judgejules

Give zen and demon a ring, ask them what PoP you'd be going into and ask them what carriers they use. The one point of failure you will have with this setup however would be your local telephone exchange. If that were to have a problem or worse burn down, you'd still lose connectivity even though you had two peers.

The only way you could get around that would be to use adsl for one connection and cable for the other, but thats dependant on whether you have cable in your area.

spectrum48k

Will do.

Can you elaborate on what "PoP" means in this context ?

Never thought of aDSL and Cable too. It would be a bit messy with the cable modem, dual-wan router and our sonicwall, but it definitely makes sense for fall-over reasons.

judgejules

A PoP is a Point of Presence, when takling about adsl its used to distinguish where BT ends the your ISP starts.

judgejules

The cable modem wouldnt be messy at all if it terminates in RJ45. You just slap that into the Wan2 port on the Dratek and it'll route the traffic on Wan2 over the cable modem. Not a bad bit of kit really, not looked into all this since I got my Vigor2800VG

spectrum48k

So even if its aDSL dual-wan Draytek router, I just plug the cable modem into it ? Yes, its RJ45 or USB.

I did the check you mentioned. It came back with the possible carriers I can use (we already have an aDSL service on the line from Easynet but its too expensive)

Congratulations, you are in a broadband enabled area.
However, there is another service on your phone line (e.g. ADSL, LLU, DACS, etc) that would prevent you from ordering a new ADSL connection.

The following services are available in your location:

BT Wholesale ADSL
BT Wholesale ADSL Max
BT Wholesale SDSL
Be LLU
TalkTalk (CPW) LLU
Sky Broadband / Easynet LLU
Orange LLU (Formerly Wanadoo)
Virgin Media (Cable)
21CN PSTN migration due Apr-Jun 201

spectrum48k

so thinking about it, we'd be best off with:

1) An aDSL based line which went through the local exchange.
2) A cable broadband line which doesn't touch the local exchange

Chances of them both going down at the same time are remote, eh ?

judgejules

Aye, you do realise that the Vigor 2910 / Vigor 2910VG doesnt have anything to do with ADSL right? It has no modem in it, its just a router so you'll need an adsl modem with an RJ45 out and a cable modem with an RJ45 out and you're sorted.

Yeah, odds on adsl and cable going down at the same time, v.v.v.slim. If it does there'll be something majorly wrong like a nuke or an act of terrorism and then you wont really care about your internet connection

J

spectrum48k

oh bugger, thought it had a couple of adsl modems built into it! Not to worry - we currently have a Zyxel router with built in adsl modem - although come to think of it, it was supplied by Easynet and consequently I *think* its locked to prevent user access, D'oh! Anyway, I can get one supplied with the new aDSL broadband ISP (and a cable modem with the new cable broadband ISP)

spectrum48k

ADDED

Would you BELIEVE it. It looks like our SonicWall TZ170 has a firmware update which converts it into a DUAL-WAN appliance! Admittedly we haven't payed for a firmware update for a year or more, so I wasn't aware of this!
Double your broadband, double your fun - Network World

ChrisB

You need SonicOS Enhanced to active the WAN redundancy (when you buy that, you also get a years 8x5 support included).

Note that upgrading from Standard to Enhanced is a full config rebuild, so document your existing configuration carefully.

spectrum48k

ah, right. Thanks for the info. I've already backed up settings, but I think I'll screen capture each section. Kieran recently helped me solve an NTP issue by opening NTP ports on the SonicWall - I must remember to do this when we install SonicOS Enhanced.

For dual-wan, will I only need to ask each different ISP for 1 static IP address and assign it to each of the WAN ports on the SonicOS Enhanced TZ170 ?

eg. the cable modem (WAN1)
eg. the aDSL modem/router (WAN2) won't need static IP

I assume both devices will allow VPN passthrough ?

This is all new to me, so excuse my ignorance.

ChrisB

Couple of options on the ADSL side...

If I need to use a router, I use a SpeedTouch 546 and run it without the NAT and firewall enabled so it's just a router. Easiest way to get this working is to get a /30 subnet (mask is 255.255.255.252) from the ISP (which gives you 2 useable IP addresses). One goes on the router, the other on the WAN port on the SonicWall which is configured for NAT.

Alternatively, get a Draytek Vigor 100 ADSL Modem (£40ish). Dead easy to setup as they come pre-configured for UK ADSL (assuming you buy in the UK of course!). You then configure the SonicWall WAN port to use PPPoE and enter the ADSL username & password into the SonicWall. Only needs a single static IP which the SonicWall will usually pick up by default.

Configuring ports on Enhanced OS is somewhat harder than Standard but you can use the Public Server Wizard which makes life easier. Sounds a little odd that you needed to open ports for NTP though I guess you could be running very locked down.

spectrum48k

Good info!

We currently use a Sonicwall plugged into a Zyxel Prestige router. Easynet lock out the router to prevent access to its setup (I can't telnet to it and the web interface doesn't appear to work)

Sooo I was just trying to establish if the router needed a static IP as well as the SonicWall. From your explanation above, it appears it does.

When I switch ISP's, I was going to buy in a simple ADSL modem to use instead of a router, so I'll go with your second technique, which only utilises a single static IP. Question - does PPPoE on the Sonicwall WAN pass the login details to the ADSL modem or does it go to the ISP ?

Thanks for your time Chris.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Linksys RV082 units handle dual WAN/failover very well too, as well as VPN duties. A lot cheaper overall than Sonicwalls and work extremely well. I run our company off them as well as a number of clients.

ChrisB

Linksys? <shudder>

PPPoE on the Sonicwall authenticates with the ISP - the Vigor 100 just handles the Ethernet / ADSL "conversion". It does have a web page for stats to show sync rate but there's very little you can or need to do with it. I'm using the Vigor on a few sites (including our office) and it's the quickest option. We do have a documented configuration for the Speedtouch but it's longer to set-up.

spectrum48k

Mr Footlong, that Antec P180 case I bought is a beaty. I've never enjoyed a PC build more than I did recently constructing my quad core system. The whole lot is whisper quiet and thanks to the tuniq, the cpu sits around 32-34 degC.

Mr Footlong

iTrader: (7)

Lol, shudder all you want darling , these units are solid. I have a load of clients running these as VPN endpoints. A couple of the sites are 100+ user and have 2/3 of these units providing VPN connections in for their multiple remote users with complete reliability. I am not saying that all linksys products are good, but I am so grateful that I stumbled across these puppies. We use the failover stuff at work and it adapts very well and quickly.

Anyway, yes sonicwall are good but I find like the fact the Linksys units don't need any active licensing is all .

Spectrum, . Tuniq makes me moist.

spectrum48k

ChrisB,

Question 1: if I'm initially using the first scenario (with the 2 static IP addresses) , when configuring the SonicWall, would you set its gateway to the static IP of the Speedtouch ? (or would it be an IP address elsewhere on the ISP's network?)

Question 2: What's the point in using 2 static IP addresses (scenario 1) when you can get away with just the one static IP (scenario 2) ? Is it solely so the ISP or remote connection, can manage the Speedtouch ?