Butkus

Hi. I wondered if anyone can give me some advice on IT qualifications? I'm currently working for myself from home, and I find myself with a lot of free time. I'm also aware that my own business might not take off to the level that I need it to, so I'm thinking of backup plans.

As I am at home and have a computer, an IT qualification would be ideal but I don't really know where to start. Should I try to learn a programming language? Or perhaps one of the Microsoft courses? Can these be done at home?

All advice much appreciated.

GaryK

Butkus,

The trouble is that you are in a chicken and egg situation. Cant get work because of no experience and without the work wont gain the experience you need. To be honest in IT experience counts for more than qualifications IMHO so doing an M$ course is not going to help. If you want to learn programming it is better to do it in a classroom environment (evening classes?) rather than on your own. You will also find it better to do a 'project' rather than learn for the sake of it, i.e. approach friends and see if there is something you can write for them for free, it will give you much more focus and in return they can be useful reference points. If you are looking to learn a programming language then C# would be your best starting point. Others may say start with this or this and then move onto C#, dont! You have an advantage in some respects that developers with experience have to 'unlearn' things when adopting new technologies. C# is and *will* be everywhere and will be used for applications from mobile to destop to web

have fun!

Gary

bob269

Steer clear from V.Basic as this is now extinct. Go for C++ or .NET

Or consider web design, its quite easy if you've got a creative flair.

Alec

Another vote for C# here, and as Garyk says go straight for this first.

Alec

ChefDude

bob, vb6 is not extinct and won't be for a long time - just because MS don';t support it, doesn't mean it's gone forever.

i can still pick up a 50 quid an hour contract doing vb6!

ChefDude

in the context of this thread tho, ur right to suggest not going for vb6 - it is not going to get a newbie a job.

sorry for over reacting. vb6, coded properly is a good language. like all languages it can be abused.

bob269

I'm not disputing the fact that its a good language to use, i'm just saying if you're going to learn something new it's pointless learning something that is being phased out.

Just seen your second post mate

bren.wright

VB is a good foundation language to learn. Start off with VB as it is simple then move onto other languages.

GaryK

Sorry bren but if you are starting out then learning VB and moving to C# is *not* the right move, have you heard all the furore over VB programmers migrating to .net and struggling? Its because it needs a different mindset, C# is completely OO which for most VB devs is a new concept.

David_Wallis

VB is ok, but the .NET framework brings it into a different league..

Id personally say Learn C# and if you can do that then VB will be a piece of **** to pick up..

I use VB and would like to learn C#, just out of curiousity..(sp) however I can do everything I need in VB.NET and Im not a programmer by trade.. but it helps

David

john_s

iTrader: (1)

I'm not a programmer, though I write applications to streamline some bits and pieces at work. I've used VB5 and 6 in the past, and tried C# a couple of months ago. I was well impressed with it.

IMO, and as others have said above, start off with C#.

John.

KiwiGTI

Makes no difference if you learn C# or VB.NET, they are virtually identical in terms of what can be achieved.

Anyone tells you different is lying, basically because of the .NET CLR.

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=308470

ChefDude

operative phrase being virtually identical

yes, they all assemble to IL and go through the CLR, but they're not the same and to achieve the same result, i'd pick c# everytime. you can just do more and more easily.

GaryK

Yep the fact of the matter is yes they spit out IL but C# was architected from a blank sheet of paper (with the best bits of Java) so it is elegantly and efficiently designed (by Anders the guy wrote Turbo Pascal and the original Delphi architect) whereas (yet again) VB has been retro fitted to comply with the .Net framework.

Gary

J4CKO

iTrader: (1)

Nah,

learn Oracle applications .

GaryK

Actually thats reminded me J4cko, not oracle specifically but some SQL skills are essential in most business environments, so there you go Butkus c# with SQL and the world is your oyster!

Gary

kilo_4que

How long do you think it could take to learn C# with minimal programming knowledge. Also is it possible to learn using online sources or are books essential and if so which books would you recommend

zip929

What about VB.Net? Edit and continue support? I am a MCAD in C# (all my exams taken IN C#) but edit and contine makes VB.NET very attractive. I develop in VB.NET, bosses decison, but C# and VB.NET are so similar, I can very easily switch between the two. Don't slate VB, as good, if not more productive than C#.

zip929

Hi kilo. We related in the other thread.

C#, is not mega difficult to learn, especially for someone with an IT degree.

I have been working on and off with dotnet for the last couple of years.
My boss did not know where to move our application to, so I have rewote our application (a small part of) in different languages to see if a move would be benficial.
In my experience, a few weeks working with a language, can be very productive.
If you have no programming experience, then this is going to be a lot longer.

It took me 8 months to pass an MCP exam in visual basic .

This was while working full time in a totally different industry.

I would advise, looking at studying, and pasiing the MCP exam for C# Windows forms programming. It will certainly do you no harm, and give you a good knowledge of how to use the language.
There are no shortcuts. Books, study, website etc... You have to read!!!

Personally. although I program using VB.NET, given a choice( my boss does not) I would use C#. The choice is purely syntax based because the IL compiled by both is practically the same.
The choice is yours!
Good luck.

kilo_4que

Wow thats some handy stuff there Zip. I have been on the edge of wanting to start C# but for some strange reason always pull back thinking its too much of a committment (spelling). I guess its worth it at the end of the day

GaryK

kilo,

I would suggest seeing if there are any classes you can attend. Doing this sort of thing in group environment can help you keep motivated and you can learn from others. Find friends/families that have a specific *need* for an application that you could write (for free) and use that as a learning tool. Too many people when starting out developing fail because they sit at home and just try and 'invent' things to write, there is no real end point or reason and typically the project never gets finished. Even better if you know someone who runs their own business that needs something because they will provide an extremely valuable reference point. You have to be persistent as well, its frustrating when you start out but if you keep at it it does get easier. These days there are a huge amount of resources on the web, Im sure others here can point you in the direction of .net forums where you can ask and get answers to any questions you may have. Dont forget also that M$ do express versions of their .net development tools which are free and a great way to get started.

Gary

kilo_4que

That is very true Gary. Its rather ironic how I have done a Computer Science degree and the ony time we have been taught or were given a module in OO Programming was in the very first year. A single module which was there to cover the very basics. By the time we got to our final year it was embarrasing to be honest that none of us or very few of us knew any programming languages.

I myself studied languages such as Haskell and Prolog to great lengths which as you may be aware are ancient as well as the fact that they are used in cryptography and number crunching. Where am i goign to get a job in cryptography lol

Its a bit of a problem enrolling onto programming classes in C# since there are no institutes that concentrate particularly on programming near where I live. O and it needs to be free as I have no job

GaryK

Ok not free but one of the best resources on the net for .net http://www.learnvisualstudio.net/ and like I said approach someone who needs a specific piece of work, dont sit there and write a recipe database for your mum!

Gary

Iain Young

If you want to try your hand at programming before buying the microsoft compilers and tackling the .net framework, you could do worse than have a look at Java to be honest.

It's not the quickest language out there, but it is very widely used, it's free, safe to learn on (you're unlikely to crash your pc by doing something silly), and it is a very good starting point for learning oo concepts. When you feel comfortable, you can move onto c# (which is actually very similar to Java in a lot of ways), or C++ etc.

Once you move onto the .net framework, you open a whole new can of worms, and things can get complicated very quickly. It's very powerful if coded correctly, but with that power comes a whole load of potential problems.

If you are just starting, then I'd personally use something simple (like Java) to get the concepts under your belt first.

ChrisB

Microsoft offer free versions of Visual Studio here:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/default.aspx

So you can download the C++, C# and/or the VB.Net versions to have a good tinker with FOC. Yes, they are limited in some areas (for instance application deployment / installation) but I you can't complain for free IMHO.

molko

I would agree with the above, all the Java stuff is mainly open source, meaning pretty much FREE. The object model of Java and C# is more-or-less the same, there are subtle differences.

I cannot recommend highly enought the Programming Book/OO book by Bruce Eckel, you can download them for free from http://www.mindview.net/ i would get the Thinking In Java book, NOT because of the language, but the first 3-4 chapter will teach you about Object Oriented Concepts, these skills can be transferred between Java, C#, C++, VB.Net and other Object Oriented Languages. Once you have grasped this, you can then decide to learn any of the above languages.

Dont let anyone tell you that a specific language is better than any other languages, it really is horses for courses