Evening all,

Simple question at the outset - what differences might I expect between a 2000 type R and a 2006 hawkeye STI? JDM / UK aside (for now)

I have previously owned a type R and currently own a megane R26. Absolutely loved every minute of the type R - was an incredible driving machine. How might driving a hawkeye compare? I assume it will drive more like my current R26, refined, smoother power delivery, more "distant" steering feeling? If this is the case, I might well just go back to getting another type R. Driving it put a smile on my face every time. Do you still get a smile with the hawkeye or is it more boring?

Thanks

 

Hi there
I had a 56 hawkeye, spent a lot of money on it to get it to nearly 400bhp, I now i have a standardish v5 type r and its the car i wanted the hawkeye to be. If only I had known then what I know now !!!!!

 

I went from a Hawkeye Spec C to a Ver6 TypeR WRC Ltd to a Ver9 JDM Sti!!

Ver 10 Spec C similar to Ver 9 JDM Sti, fast, efficient excellent grip, practical.
Type R was a chuckable & fun but had its drawbacks being 12 years old.

 

Have had classics and newages - it's just a ? of what you are looking for.

Now have a 06 WRX with 360bhp and 400 ft/lbs. Some mild suspension changes and a few not expensive mods. I have a fallen for my hawkeye it ticks all the boxes for me. Drive mainly b and c roads as well as some A road and motorway.

In the end - have a play in one that has been modded and see what you think.

 

2 brilliant answers - but totally contradictory! Doesn't help me decide. Though WRX400 - I imagine that is exactly what I would end up doing. Modifying the hawk to drive like a type R, realising it wasnt an R then having to revert.

Rick, what drawbacks do you speak of? mod-cons of a moden car, i.e. interior looks and comfort etc? If so, I was never too offended by the type R so would be prepared to live with that knowing that the drive is what im after.

Thanks!

 

As for what im after - I loved the way the type R felt to drive. I dont want to feel too detetched from the drive as with more modern cars. I am also not adverse to the comfort and looks of the hawkeye though.

 

Type R was a great fun car that I do like & in a way was more enjoyable than my Ver9 JDM STi.

But the things I didn't like, in no particular order:

-Gearbox slow compared to JDM 6 speed
-Diff's can go like mine & also a little clunky
-Over 10 year old engine & ancillaries
-Can have issues with Mafs, sensors, electrics
-Interior not as solid & rattley
-Body/Chassis flex when pushed
-Engine rebuild thoughts always at the back of your mind

Still love em though

 

type r all the way

 

As an every day car the type r can be difficult to live with, although i know just what you mean about the smile every time you drive it.

I have a type r and i have just bought a blob wrx wagon as the practicality of the wagon is more suited to my life style, and having had a blob before i know what to expect, the newage cars are a hell of a weapon when modded properly, but the type r just has that certian something when it comes to being a drivers car and i shall be sad to see mine go.

I really do love classics but as an every day car they are getting on a bit, if i ever do go back to old cars again it will be something like an Escort mk1 and only a week end car as i want my scooby thrills everyday

 

I own a classic and have driven a newage so heres my 2p worth.

The type R is what i'd class as a toy, its raw, you'll feel the road, the bumps, the transmission and the noise. Its a lighter car, a drivers car, something to put a smile on your face when you need it and you'll stand out in it. Park it on your drive and most people under 30 will look at it, most of your neighbours will twitch the curtains when you start it but enthusiasts will adore it.

The newage is a more solid car, you can feel the beefyness. It has a newer feel, but a heavier feel, you dont feel as connected to the car or the road as you do in a classic. The brakes are better, everything seems "chunkier" and you feel more secure. Park it on your drive and the neighbours will think youre fun, but sensible too. Chances are, you wont get asked "whats the bhp" as much as you do in a classic.

So basically you have to decide if its going to be a daily driver, family car with fun time now and then (newage), or something to take pride in, to get the heart racing, neighbours talking and the missus excited!

 

Luckily I didn't find the type R hard to live with daily at all. I owned a VX220 through winter last year and anyone who can handle that can easily live with the luxurious type R

Even though a modified newage is one hell of a weapon - if I were to get one would I just be left with the void that is the type R?

Also how is the power delivery of the hawkeye and its 2.5 compared to the R? I imagine that with 2.5l (if we are talking UK) and a heavier gross weight, the power delivery wont be as much of a smack in the face as the R - am I right? I prefer the delivery of the R to my megane R26 which is more linear as it just makes you feel like you are going faster than you really are - which is always good for road use as you dont get into as much trouble! The R26 can be hurtling down the road and I have no idea what speed I'm going whereas the type R always kept you well informed of the current speed. Although a linear power delivery is of course more suited to road driving, its just not as much fun

Keep the comments pouring in please - the more view points the better!

 

I own 2 classics and an STi Hawkeye. Classic all day long doesn't even have to be a Type R few choice mods and a set of Brembos and it's all you need to enjoy yourself. Most things get replaced with uprated items, so as long as the shell is good it matters not the age of the car

 

^ spot on

Just jumped back to a new age (wagon) and it's just not as fluid as a classic...

 

newage wagon as in blob, not hawk? surely things have improved further since blob though, or does it just get worse??

 

Worse IMHO, drive by wire throttle is even more desensitising the driving experience IMHO

 

I have a Hawk spent a fortune on it, I think it is a fantastic car, great all-rounder.

But If I had my time over again it would be like the rest a "R" defo

Bez

 

Ha ha This is going new age/classic...

Claasic (any), road use - 330 bhp and you're gonna think you're in Rally GB alot more than any New Age

Edit: Mere mortal caveat applies

 

I would deffo say Type R but then I am biased

Things to consider though with the Type R:

Engine - has it had a rebuild, due to their age it would be more reassuring if you got one that's already had the engine rebuilt
Gearbox - can't handle anywhere near as much torque as a 6 speed so if you're thinking of modding it to run big power you will need to drop a 6 speed in
MAF - either change it each year when servicing or get an ECU that does away with it, Simtek etc
Brakes - standard 4 pots are reasonable but you can breach they're limits pretty easily
Suspension - due to age will more than likely be well past it's best, replacements whether they be struts and springs or coilovers will be pricey
Rust - varies a lot from car to car but eventually they'll probably all suffer from it on the rear arches

It'll definitely be the more fun and involving car to drive I just wanted to point out there can be a lot of costs involved that you don't necessarily think of. Of course if you happened to come across one that's already had all the required work done to it then you'd be on to a winner

 

Well just to give you an insight to one of my ideas, i'm going to break my type r, and i am seriously considering putting the drive train of the type r on to my blob, along with the short ratio gear box with a uk 5th so i can have the best of both worlds, over the next couple of years i may have a 400bhp+ blob type r

 

Own a classic sti and recently drove 03 uk blob sti with simillar mods. Classic feels more involving , drivers car, less planted more edgy so feels more fun as you are phisicly attached to it. New age felt much more beefy, but it wasnt slower , felt more planted , predictable, rear end less snappy. Gives you more confidence , the only thing i didnt like was steering feel which was a bit light comparing to a classic. If you are into modding get a new age as it got moe potencial, brakes, transmition, much stiffer body, engines. Specialy JDM which got some forged internals bits, a bit more agressive map and fast spooling twin scroll turbo setup. Classics dont need much power to make you smile thought... Just my thoughts...

 

Type r u no u want to

 

Ok, to start with ive both a v5 sti type r and a MY03 Spec C limited, best of both worlds
You cannnot compare a JDM to a UK, if the JDM has dccd and the UK doesnt, then its just like comparing tesco digestives to mcvities, look the same but taste totally different.
To start with an MY00 STI v6 type R will have a quick rack as standard, anything STI new age UK will have a fast rack, straight away you have less "feel" on a UK car, no real comparison if you have ever driven a quick rack car v a fast rack one (my V5 has a fast rack and definately feels "numb" compared to the quick rack of the Spec C).

Fly by dire... its known to be horrid, good job the JDM cars (Specially the Hawk Spec C) didnt have it fitted .

Comparing the difference between 2 JDM's is a different world to that of comparing a JDM to a UK, the type R is a really good car, handles well, you feel like your going fast due to the close ratio box (though if you have driven a 6 speeder you want to keep putting into 6th ) it lets you know what you want to do, it can be unforgiving, especially if you dont know how to use the dccd properly or try to push the car beyond your limits, its noisy, the rattles annoy you, you wonder when the engine is going to let go, you wonder if you should fit more gauges, a knocklink, a ks3, a lambda link etc to monitor whats going on under the bonnet, you know you need to upgrade the brakes with bigger calipers and discs etc, you know its good in standard form but not excellent, so you have to add all the things that came with the new age cars...
Its also 12 years old, if you get a nice one from japan it may be ok, your going to have to replace the maf to be on the safe side, you will enjoy driving it, but it leaves something missing and you cannot quite put your finger on it.

The new age JDM on the other hand (especially if you talk MY05 or MY06/7 cars) really do tick all the boxes.
Yes people call them dulled down, not as sharp (they are actually, just that people cannot drive ) the power is more linear due to the twin scroll turbo, but its also got alot more umph in the mid range to boot.
They handle excellently, stick to the roads better than the classics though it does seem that they dont inspire the confidence a classic does with road holding, dunno why, maybe its just something you just get use to in a new age, they actually do handle better but you dont feel the need to push as hard, but when you do its a more rewarding car, especially on the limit

Its a hard choice, you sound as though you "need" to do the type R thing, you wont really regret it but you will feel a little let down by the R if you go new age JDM (05-07) or Spec C afterwards.

Both sets of keys on the side, i'll pick up the Spec C's 99% of the time.

Tony

 

Love it!

 

clicky

 

The comment regarding prefering the type R to the newage JDM pretty much sold it for me. Returning to a classic is what I'll do - plus the $$ saved will ensure it is as good as my old one

Just out of interest, how rare are the newer JDM's? There dont seem to be many for sale.

 

New JDM's are rare, like I said though, you will be disappointed with the type R if you go to a new age JDM 05-07 afterwards, or a spec c.

Tony

 

Note Rickya and me both went Newage JDM to type r to new age JDM, that tells you something

Tony

 

I can't get enough of my Type R, and also am not dissapointed I sold my 'JDM'. In fact I drove the JDM just recently, and its current owner drove my Type R. We both agreed in that back to back Sunday morning hoon the Type R was was more involving, more fluid and gave the biggest grin. Although the JDM's engineering was hard to ignore

 

The biggest difference in speed between the type R and "My" Spec C (note its not modified, pretty much factory spec), is that the R feels unstable at higher speeds (even my last classic MY00 Uk turbo did), the Spec C, you look down and your doing 140+ and going "oooops"
The more involving to drive?
The Spec C, no if's or but's, hence I put down MY05-07 or a Spec C, the MY03-04 are very very good cars but dont have the same geometry setup as the MY05 cars do, which does make a difference, and yes I will agree with people to say that they are more grown up, comfortable, easier to drive, but then again so is a normal STI classic, thats what they were designed for
The type R and RA are different again, closer ratio box, more manic etc, but you get that with the new age cars due to the ratio's, it makes it more fun, hence JDM classic v JDM newage, the newage comes out on top (note twin scroll only or an S202 )

As ive said, you wont regret buying the "R" until you get a new age JDM STI MY05 - 07 or a Spec C, then you will feel a little disappointed with the "R", but its engineering is a decade behind.

Tony

 

My '97 STi Type R (std) was quite different to the one I currently own (WRX-Ltd, 331 bhp). The STi R was 'good' for short blasts of acceleration, liked being ragged so to speak, not high speed, where it did feel a little hairy. This was mainly down to high rev gearing, and quite firm suspension - which is after all something this 'JDM' was criticised for, for UK road use



My V-Ltd has an extended 5th (as well as P1 springs) and I can tell you, takes 140mph well in its stride

I haven't driven a Spec C though, and not to take anything from this supremely respected scooby (I would own one), can't imagine the on the road difference being leagues different from a 370bhp JDM MY04