Are we slowly being overtaken...
17 May 2013, 03:43 PM
#121
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Yeah but how much does the BM 135i cost.
As far as i'm concerned (i'm prepared to be enlightened if anyone has any suggestions) I don't think there is anything out there that can leave a scoob £ for £, if there was one would be in my garage, consequently I have an STI Type r in the garage and a WRX Wagon PPP on the drive, nothing comes close in standard form for similar money then add the tuning potential and you can include cars up to and above £100k once you spend another £20k on mods you can end up with a 600bhp+ monster the likes of which banny and a few others have.
As far as i'm concerned (i'm prepared to be enlightened if anyone has any suggestions) I don't think there is anything out there that can leave a scoob £ for £, if there was one would be in my garage, consequently I have an STI Type r in the garage and a WRX Wagon PPP on the drive, nothing comes close in standard form for similar money then add the tuning potential and you can include cars up to and above £100k once you spend another £20k on mods you can end up with a 600bhp+ monster the likes of which banny and a few others have.
17 May 2013, 10:02 PM
#122
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New angle - do people want the fastest or safest cars ?
My previous two Subarus have, I honestly believe, saved a few lives.
Complete idiots whom have come across me, asking to be T-boned at 60mph+ and possibly me and my passengers when the dreaded Welsh sheep charge out of the undergrowth and onto the highway. (Sorry, this isn't a joking matter, we've had a number of absolute tragedies around our way because of straying sheep).
I'd prefer a car that's 90% of the performance of another but 100, 200 or even more % safer than anything out there.
My previous two Subarus have, I honestly believe, saved a few lives.
Complete idiots whom have come across me, asking to be T-boned at 60mph+ and possibly me and my passengers when the dreaded Welsh sheep charge out of the undergrowth and onto the highway. (Sorry, this isn't a joking matter, we've had a number of absolute tragedies around our way because of straying sheep).
I'd prefer a car that's 90% of the performance of another but 100, 200 or even more % safer than anything out there.
20 May 2013, 01:23 PM
#125
New angle - do people want the fastest or safest cars ?
My previous two Subarus have, I honestly believe, saved a few lives.
Complete idiots whom have come across me, asking to be T-boned at 60mph+ and possibly me and my passengers when the dreaded Welsh sheep charge out of the undergrowth and onto the highway. (Sorry, this isn't a joking matter, we've had a number of absolute tragedies around our way because of straying sheep).
I'd prefer a car that's 90% of the performance of another but 100, 200 or even more % safer than anything out there.
My previous two Subarus have, I honestly believe, saved a few lives.
Complete idiots whom have come across me, asking to be T-boned at 60mph+ and possibly me and my passengers when the dreaded Welsh sheep charge out of the undergrowth and onto the highway. (Sorry, this isn't a joking matter, we've had a number of absolute tragedies around our way because of straying sheep).
I'd prefer a car that's 90% of the performance of another but 100, 200 or even more % safer than anything out there.
20 May 2013, 04:03 PM
#126
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The chassis on a hot hatch are way more stable with mods than a big Subaru is....
21 May 2013, 01:14 AM
#128
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21 May 2013, 08:59 AM
#129
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21 May 2013, 12:44 PM
#131
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Generally modern hot hatches chassis are way more developed than impreza; the impreza relies on the huge amount of mechanical grip that is native to 4WD drive. FWD -as everybody is always quick to point out on any 4WD/RWD forum- is a packaging compromise and so manufacturers have to work harder with technology and chassis design to make them work well. 
21 May 2013, 01:04 PM
#132
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By 'hype' I wasn't referring to you but the propaganda that all manufacturers put out.
I was looking to see if anyone had driven both types to near their limit ie. an opinion based on experience.
Sorry if I confused the issue !
21 May 2013, 01:11 PM
#133
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Generally modern hot hatches chassis are way more developed than impreza; the impreza relies on the huge amount of mechanical grip that is native to 4WD drive. FWD -as everybody is always quick to point out on any 4WD/RWD forum- is a packaging compromise and so manufacturers have to work harder with technology and chassis design to make them work well.
It seems to me that 'they' are creating a superb chassis, suspension set-up etc. only for it to be let down by going FWD.
Didn't Ford make a 4WD Sierra at one point?
21 May 2013, 01:18 PM
#134
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This might sound a bit daft but wouldn't it better benefit manufacturers to put the design money into making their cars AWD and avoid what are presumably huge research costs in chassis design?
It seems to me that 'they' are creating a superb chassis, suspension set-up etc. only for it to be let down by going FWD.
Didn't Ford make a 4WD Sierra at one point?
It seems to me that 'they' are creating a superb chassis, suspension set-up etc. only for it to be let down by going FWD.
Didn't Ford make a 4WD Sierra at one point?
21 May 2013, 01:24 PM
#135
It's all about costs...the development costs to create a decent 4WD drive car can only be justified if there is a market for it...twenty odd years ago before car running costs tipped over into ridiculous there was a market. Today as Subaru have found there just isn't...especially when the alternatives (FWD hot hatches), are so competent. Twenty odd years is an immense amount of time as far as technology is concerned.
When your car is finished in 20 years I expect amazing things from it
21 May 2013, 06:00 PM
#137
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I'm not saying anything that hasn't been discussed already, but I still think hothatches are a long way raw performance.
I came from a 200bhp 2010 Honda Civic, it was a later one with the LSD. Even with 200bhp in the dry, it simply could not put power down.
I've yet to wheelspin my Impreza (2005 STI with 315bhp) and it's also quite capable outside of traction zones too in terms of handling.
A friend of mine has recently bought one of the 265bhp Megane RS thingies, it's a fantastic car but in the damp - it's wheelspinning in third gear. I took him out in the Impreza, with a damp road and SNOW lining the outside of the road in the verges, and he could not get his head around the sheer power of the traction. It's a totally different experience.
If Ford (for example) would have gone 4x4 with the Mk2 Focus RS, it would be a real Scooby competitor. "trick diffs" just aren't enough on fwd cars, physics says so.
I think Impreza's are more comparable with today's fast Audi's than they are hot hatches (S3 for example). Impreza's win that price battle though, when comparing new to new.
One area in which Subaru were slow to pick up on is interior quality. The Megane RS I referenced earlier has got a lovely interior, even for a french car. Only the very recent hatch/saloons I've seen feel like a nice place to sit for the Impreza's. Hawkeye onwards should have been nicer.
I came from a 200bhp 2010 Honda Civic, it was a later one with the LSD. Even with 200bhp in the dry, it simply could not put power down.
I've yet to wheelspin my Impreza (2005 STI with 315bhp) and it's also quite capable outside of traction zones too in terms of handling.
A friend of mine has recently bought one of the 265bhp Megane RS thingies, it's a fantastic car but in the damp - it's wheelspinning in third gear. I took him out in the Impreza, with a damp road and SNOW lining the outside of the road in the verges, and he could not get his head around the sheer power of the traction. It's a totally different experience.
If Ford (for example) would have gone 4x4 with the Mk2 Focus RS, it would be a real Scooby competitor. "trick diffs" just aren't enough on fwd cars, physics says so.
I think Impreza's are more comparable with today's fast Audi's than they are hot hatches (S3 for example). Impreza's win that price battle though, when comparing new to new.
One area in which Subaru were slow to pick up on is interior quality. The Megane RS I referenced earlier has got a lovely interior, even for a french car. Only the very recent hatch/saloons I've seen feel like a nice place to sit for the Impreza's. Hawkeye onwards should have been nicer.
21 May 2013, 06:50 PM
#138
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To a certain extent I agree about the comfort aspects.
However, it might be that Subaru thought the car would lose its - dare I say macho - image if it was tarted up inside the cabin.
Talking about traction though reminded me of one example of how good the Impreza is. (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME, or anywhere else for that matter).
As I've mentioned I once worked in the Lake District, a 245-mile trip up on a Sunday, back on Friday.
One Sunday the forecast was snow and when it started snowing I left early in order to get up there.
On a dual carriageway about 2-3 inches of snow in the outside lane, less on the inside.
I move to overtake a Range Rover, at about 40mph and the a$$hole puts his foot down (gently).
Down into third, gentle but progressive weight on the go pedal and the car get's up to 60+ in next to no time, no loss of traction and Mr Prat is history, never to bother me again.
Not only can scoobies do in the wet what others can't in the dry but they can also not do in the wet what others do in the dry (if that makes sense).
On a serious note though, is that not a worrying thing, that the driver of a modern hatch gets so used to its performance in the dry that any other conditions catch them out, and we only have snow a few times a year, (even here in The Valleys).
However, it might be that Subaru thought the car would lose its - dare I say macho - image if it was tarted up inside the cabin.
Talking about traction though reminded me of one example of how good the Impreza is. (DO NOT TRY THIS AT HOME, or anywhere else for that matter).
As I've mentioned I once worked in the Lake District, a 245-mile trip up on a Sunday, back on Friday.
One Sunday the forecast was snow and when it started snowing I left early in order to get up there.
On a dual carriageway about 2-3 inches of snow in the outside lane, less on the inside.
I move to overtake a Range Rover, at about 40mph and the a$$hole puts his foot down (gently).
Down into third, gentle but progressive weight on the go pedal and the car get's up to 60+ in next to no time, no loss of traction and Mr Prat is history, never to bother me again.
Not only can scoobies do in the wet what others can't in the dry but they can also not do in the wet what others do in the dry (if that makes sense).
On a serious note though, is that not a worrying thing, that the driver of a modern hatch gets so used to its performance in the dry that any other conditions catch them out, and we only have snow a few times a year, (even here in The Valleys).
21 May 2013, 07:24 PM
#139
For me it's not so much the 4 wheel drive which is nice to have, but it's the whole package, the umph of the turbo with that kick in the back and the noise, they are just so impressive even in standard form, the over taking ability is immense when faced with a line of traffic on a B road the way you can eat 5 cars and a lorry to get some clear road is fabulous.
I can't ever see me being without one again, they really do get under your skin.
I can't ever see me being without one again, they really do get under your skin.
21 May 2013, 07:34 PM
#140
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For me it's not so much the 4 wheel drive which is nice to have, but it's the whole package, the umph of the turbo with that kick in the back and the noise, they are just so impressive even in standard form, the over taking ability is immense when faced with a line of traffic on a B road the way you can eat 5 cars and a lorry to get some clear road is fabulous.
I can't ever see me being without one again, they really do get under your skin.
I can't ever see me being without one again, they really do get under your skin.
.I think that sums it up perfectly.
21 May 2013, 07:40 PM
#141
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For me it's not so much the 4 wheel drive which is nice to have, but it's the whole package, the umph of the turbo with that kick in the back and the noise, they are just so impressive even in standard form, the over taking ability is immense when faced with a line of traffic on a B road the way you can eat 5 cars and a lorry to get some clear road is fabulous.
I can't ever see me being without one again, they really do get under your skin.
I can't ever see me being without one again, they really do get under your skin.
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