Leslie

Stirling Moss would agree with your post.

I think like you that it is too easy to drive modern cars on the limit and it would improve the racing in general if the control of the cars took rather more skill than it does these days.

Les

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Remember when Niki Lauda tried to have a go at driving a modern F1 car back in 2001?

He made a complete hash of it as I re call. Although I don't think the vid shows just how bad he was.


I seriously doubt that today's f1 cars are easy to drive. May be at 30 mph for 5 minutes but at 100% for 2 hours? Yeah right. That's why physical fitness is now paramount to a driver being at his peak, that's why the average driver loses 4-6 kg of weight over a race distance. Yeah, easy.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

I would agree, with a caveat.

My take on it, is that yes it is 'relatively' easy to drive the car to 95% of its capabilities - you see this when a young driver comes in and does a lap 1 second off the pros.

BUT, that extra 5% is very difficult, and separates the men from the boys so to speak. And these days, the margins are so small that this 5% is the difference between winning and coming 6th, whereas back in the day the margins were much greater.

Also, drivers have an almost unlimited amount of practise available to them in the form of the simulator, so they are far less prone to make mistakes, while their predecessors would only drive a track one weekend a year and would naturally take the occasional corner too fast and crash out. You don't really see that any more as they've driven these corners thousands of times, virtually.

Ash170990

iTrader: (1)

i enjoy watching the F1, and do my best to watch every race, but its more of a race for perfection, little tweaks here and there to gain a 10th of a second a lap.

Where as i prefer BTCC as its much more edge of the seat racing!

CrisPDuk

Get rid of 50% of the aero, give the cars about 30% more power, and restrict the amount of electronic management being used.

A car (or bike) needs enough power to be able to comfortably overcome the amount of available grip, without excessive use of electronics to rein it in. The ability to find, and exploit that point where the power is about to overcome the available traction is what makes the best drivers (or riders) truly great

The engineers need to be brought back under control because they are the ones killing the spectacle, not the drivers. It's happened not just in F1, but WRC, MotoGP, and is slowly encroaching in the so called 'lesser' championships too


PS: Driver adjustable anti roll bars and brake bias systems have been utilised in competition cars since way back in the '50s and '60s. Back in the early '90s, my old Mk1 Golf had a bias pedal box in it

AndyBaker

Agree about the BTCC Ash and you usually end up with a punch up or two after the race

c_maguire

I agree entirely.
I expect, however, that we are both ill-informed casual viewers.
If I wanted to watch chess then I would do so. I don't because although playing it can be interesting, watching it is not.
Valentino Rossi on an NSR500 was entertaining. Gregorio Lavilla on a GSX-r 750 was entertaining. Ayrton Senna in any car was entertaining. Whether Sebastian Vettel is in the zone and can use D-whatever-it-is is not.

SLAB

iTrader: (77)

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Been having a bit of a think about this overnight and researching some numbers.

What I think we want to see is drivers takling the cars to the limits of the available grip from the tyres for at least a good proportion of the race.

If we assume that in qualifying the drivers are taking their cars to that limit then we can compare the qualifying times with the race laps to see how far away they are of course taling into account fuel loads etc.

So looking back about five years the fast race laps were between 1.5 and 2s shy of the qualifying times which allowing for fuel loads or having worn tyres at the end of the stints when the fuel loads were low would mean we were about there I think in terms of driving to the limits of the available grip.

On Sunday those fast race laps were about 5s shy of the qualifying time and not far off the GP2 cars..... even Alonso said he never drove flat out in the whole race.... that is not F1 to me.

It needs addressing and soon!

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Don't forget that up until this season DRS was allowable all around the track during qualifying, so that would sway your numbers.

But I think reducing the aero would make the sport more interesting, both to spectators but also more importantly to car manufacturers who are spending massive money on aero development which has no relevence to their road cars.

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

That is why I am looking at this season vs the seasons before DRS. SO DRS doesn't come into my figures as it was non-existent when they were 2s apart and can only be used the same amount between quali and the race this season.

I have said for a long time that they should simply put downforce sensors on the cars and no car should be allowed to generate more than a specified amount of downforce..... end of aero issues!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Agreed. I do miss driver's going tooth and nail without the worry of looking after their tyres.
But I do like strategic racing. For a driver to be able to 'feel' corner by conrer, just how good/bad his tyres are and then change his driving style to suit, takes some doing. I'm sure it is very tempting to just go as fast as they want but they know that by doing that, they may miss out on the win.

As for the GP2 cars being similar in pace, they do have 600bhp and weigh not a lot more than F1 cars. I thought they have always been within 5-8 seconds of the F1 cars, at most tracks. Plus they don't have to carry as much fuel at the start of a race.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

HURRAH!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/22523596

FIA and Pirelli have been reading NSR too!

Leslie

It is certainly all wrong that a race win can depend on how long you can preserve your tyres.

It should be down to the car's overall performance and the skill of the driver.

Les

matt-c

iTrader: (5)

Award significant points for overtakes for position in the points paying spots.

Leslie

It still requires real skill to get the most out of a modern F1 car. All those whinging about today's drivers would get a nasty shock if they were asked to produce a similar performance in an F1 car.

I just wonder why Hamilton looks so miserable these days when he is being interviewed.

Les

Brun

Nicole ain't putting out

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Because his team are about to be given a few races worth of ban and because the tyres are so designed that he can't drive he car to its limit anyway!

No doubt the usual mob will be along soon to say it's actually because he's a spoilt talentless c**t!

legb4rsk

I agree that you have to be incredibly talented & dedicated to drive an F1 car on the limit.
I am in awe of the design & technology they use on the cars.
What I don't get is if we have the best drivers in the best cars in a race series that is the pinnacle of motorsport why is it so boring?

What needs to change?

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Because the cars and drivers are 'too good' in my opinion - when was the last time we had an engine blow-out? Or a leading driver making a mistake at Monaco? It's been a while, it used to happen every race or two. Now the margin for error is smaller and smaller with all the money thrown at the sport, and the training the drivers have on the simulators.

For me, to make it more exciting, make the budget equal for all teams, and reduce the budget to about 25% of what it is now - yes the cars will be a tad slower, but the racing would be better/more equal, and we'd probably have a bigger field of more varied cars too.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Or alternatively, make each driver down 5 pints of lager before the race That would be spectacular.

Brun

How about the slowest 10 cars start in the first 10 places and everyone else fights for 11th to 26th

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nooooooooooooooo!!! This is F1 not BTCC nonsense.

I really don't get this complaint about it being boring. The last few seasons have thrown up some truly great racing, much better than when Schumacher was just winning every nearly race (and yes I was a fan of him, but exciting it was not 2001 - 2004).

This year is marred by the tyres, but that is an error that will be sorted.

I do think having a maximum downforce limit on the cars measured by FIA sensors would reduce the reliance on aero grip and restore some balance towards mechanical grip which would make it more interetsing as following another car would be easier, but I don't want to see technology outlawed completely as F1 is as much abut technology as driver skill.

Brun

I was kidding
Totally agree on losing some aero grip!
I'd even like to see the re-introduction of fuel stops!

tony de wonderful

I find it pretty boring these days, just have it on TV in the background.

I haven't got a clue what is going on with the tyres.

ReallyReallyGoodMeat

Come to think of it another thing they could do is make the tracks harder - I'm talking no 300 metre run off areas like in Abu Dhabi and Bahrain, punishment needs to be brought back for going off the track like it used to - if you strayed off circuit chances are you'd be in a spin. Obviously safety would need to be balanced with this, but I see no reason why you can't have both an unforgiving circuit and still be safe.