nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

have nice night mate and dont take it to heart

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I never take anything to heart Call me what you want and I will still smile

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

I accept that offer

jonc

I have replied to your post, which was, typically, more of a rant about the UK followed by pledges of the SNP who have no guarantee of actually delivering after independence, most of which avoids the most crucial and fundamental unanswered questions that underpins the independence.

On the £12bn deficit:
Read the link, it is from your Scottish Government so it's from the horses mouth. Once digested, do the maths.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Publications/2014/03/7888

On Currency Union:
Dispite what Alex Salmond says, there is currently a high probability that there will not be a currency union, all the thee main parties and the Bank of England has said there will not be a union. So even if the Conservatives lose the next general election, the successor will still say no. Alex Salmond can grandstand all he likes about not taking on debt its share of the UK debt all he likes, but that is no guarantee of a currency union. Why are they so against a currency union? Because in an event of an economic crisis, rUK may be required to bail out Scotland which would mean higher taxes for rUK and no mount of oil generated tax revenue can offset that, especially since rUK have no idea what proportion of the revenue iScotland is willing to share. Basically not favorable deal for rUK. The only assurances that there may be a currency union is because Alex Salmond says so. Though it must be stated that prominent pro-independence campaigners want a new currency rather than a union.

On Debt:
Scotland could refuse to take its share of the UK debt. But there are repercussions for doing so; regardless of whether Scotland is seen to have defaulted on debt or is a new State with no debts and a clean slate, the markets will still see Scotland with NO credit history. No credit history will mean difficulty in finding lenders or iScotland having to borrow at higher rates of interest. Now you might say well Scotland did pay some of the UK debt, so that is credit history, well no, Scotland paid as being part of the UK and with it being under written by a central bank. iScotland will have no history of being able to service debt independently and also will have no central bank to underwrite the debt. Will UK be able to service Scotland's portion of the debt, I'm not saying it will be easy or without difficulties, but I think the bond markets could absorb it with additional help from Bank of England and QE. Evidence is it has so far. Whether iScotland takes on debt or not does not depend on getting currency union, but whether it wants to be able to get credit and borrow money from the international market. Currency union will cost rUK far more than taking on Scotland's debt. Likewise iScotland's borrowing will also cost a lot more without a credit history.

I'm not saying that what I say will definitely happen, but it will hopefully provide you with some food for thought.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Good stuff Jonc

I am happy you have taken some thought in what you wrote
the same cannot be said for some other people posting ill conceived crap tonight

right in the case of independence westminster want their equal share of scotlands resources and assets which is 8.3%

But scotland is in right entitled to the same 8.3% of englands resources and assets
And the bank of england is a uk asset which is also owned in part of 8.3%
to scotland

westminster cant have it both ways no matter how they spin it

I am very happy you answered this but could you also address the other issues I have brought up in post #677 please

which was not rants as it was stating facts but I would like your take on them please

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I really hope if Scotland gets what's coming to it and oil runs out within one year

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

yea scotland will get whats coming to it
and thats a free society where we are in charge of our own affairs.

right as a oil worker for the last 10 years
and my specific field of specialty was helping logging oil wells to see what was down the oil well whether it be it gas,, oil or water
what make you think you have a better knowledge than me with years of experiance behind me on this subject ?

what was it you do for a living steve ?

Martin2005

what are the bookies saying about the vote? I assume 'no' is still odds-on?

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

I dont go to the bookies mate so wouldnt know

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-29005808

I think he knows what he is talking about.

http://www.scotsman.com/news/politic...tter-1-3526265

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

we are not still in the cold war trooper1815

who do we have to worry about in scotland with being under attack trooper1815
I see southern ireland is a small independent country and I dont see them being invaded.


last time a terrorist attack took place in scotland it was a baggage handler of all people who knocked the **** clean out

RA Dunk

Along with Norway, Denmark, Holland, Belgium etc etc. I don't see many of them being invaded on a daily basis lol.

But if we walk away with our share of the national debt surely we should walk away with our share of the forces as well bearing in mind we helped pay for it.

jonc

The armed forces are made up of people of the UK, you can't force people to stay in iScotland if they choose to remain with rUK, likewise military personnel could transfer to iScotland's armed if they choose to do so. Scotland contributed £3bn to the £45.5bn total spent on UK defence and iScotland plans to spend £2.5bn after independence, so not sure what military assets Scotland expects to retain for ground, air and sea defence.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

As i said to trooper the cold war is over mate

What do we need a big army for
Who is going to attack us when there is no need to

You only need bigger armys when you are going out and fighting countrys
Which lets face it the USA drags the uk into,,,,,iraq,,,,afganistan !!!

Wars that had absolutely nothing to do with us !

We dont need a massive army as we want to be peaceful

There are plenty of other small independent countrys that have no problems in the same situation

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

2/7 for a No, 5/2 for a Yes at Paddy Power.... and narrowing all the time.

Martin2005

My prediction is No 53% Yes 47%

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

My prediction is its going to be a yes

Westminster have been caught out lying
The people know about what westminster plans to do to the country if a no vote goes through
SNP have made it possable for 16 and 17 year olds to vote who are more likely to say yes

The last independence vote the yes vote won
It was dirty tricks from westminster that done the dont know votes to be included in no votes that cheated us out of independence last time there was a independence vote

It will be close but after the yes campaign tore through the no campaign in the last two tv debates the no campaign lost massive amounts of support.

but we just need to wait and see what happens

massive YES from me

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

well Jonc you say you are here for the debate pal so start debating !

But you dont have a opinion on any of the above mate you seem to dodge these as you know as well as I do that this is the truth bud

But since you go on about the 12 billion deficit

please start with the 1 trillion pounds and counting that westminster has sunk the UK into please

then address the rest of the things I have stated please
and dont take the easy way out of answering them by saying they are rants as
they are not they are all FACTS !!


I await your reply if you have one

tony de wonderful

That's way too young to make political decisions of this magnitude.

I'm not that bothered though about the outcome to be honest but the 'yes' campaign seems to be driven by lots of hype and emotion; 'change' for the sake of it. For sure, after the Lord Mayor's show will come a massive anti-climax if they vote 'yes'. It will change nothing in people's lives, and you will get the same apathy to the political process as we get now.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Hi Tony

I am going to disagree with you there
16 is not too young as they are old enough to go out and work for a living have their own residence and look after themselves
and should have a say in one of the biggest decisions that can and will effect their lives.


Things will change with a yes vote and I have covered the biggest differences on post #677 on the differences between westminster MP's and Hollyrood MP's

jonc

Well if you want me to answer something you need to ask a question. You haven't asked a question about the £1tn debt. Yes the UK has a huge debt and it's a fact. I'm not disputing that, nor am I disputing the other facts. As you've stated only facts and not actually posed any questions, you're not debating. You've just rolled off list of statements of Westminster policies that no one is disputing and has little to do with how Scotland will go about their independence . Ok, Scotland gets its independence and walks away from it, so what? What is it you are asking and what is it do you want me to say?

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

I didnt need to ask a question as I was wanting your opinion

But if its question's you want questions you will get

1, you keep going on about a 12 billion pound deficit but fail to answer the facts that westminster dragged the UK into 1 trillion pound of debt
why do you think with a 12 billion pound deficit we are better off in the UK with a out of control goverment with a astronomically massively bigger deficit

2, why do you keep going on about finances and not about goverment policies which effect everyone and everything and try to discredit Hollyrood MP's when they are fighting to protect the people of scotland against the madness of westminster

3, Do you agree with what I say about the policies of westminster and their sinister agenda's

4, do you understand why we are so angry that weapons of mass destruction are on scottish soil 40 miles from scotlands biggest population

5, do you understand why we are fighting for our independence or are you blind to why we want independence and try to blame it on our emotion

6, Do you agree after the FACT's I have posted that scottish MP's try there hardest to cater to the Scottish people while westminster trys to exploit them and the rest of the UK as well

7, do you think scotland cant manage on our own considering we have massive amounts of resources and a massively smaller population than the rest of the uk where even the financial times stated we would be better off from day one of independence

I would like these answered please


and finally

8, can you honestly blame us for wanting to be separate from the UK and westminster ?

tony de wonderful

Too much negativity, it's all victim this and that.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

please elaborate on your statement tony

Edit -

1, privatized NHS
2, nuclear weapons 40 miles from scotlands biggest population
3, budget cuts for the most vulnerable the disabled
4, bedroom tax which targeted the weakest of uk
5, privatized public services which opened the door to OAP's freezing to death in winter because they were to scared to turn on the heating or simply could not afford the price of heating


since I am too negative can you put your positive spin on the 5 things above please

Martin2005

Can I have a crack at some of these?

1. I know it's handy to blame Westminster for all the world's ills but the fact is the debtscand deficit was created by us, we are all partly responsible for the debts we have amassed. Our unrealistic expectation of what we want and need. The debt is as much Scotland's problem as it is the UKs.

2. Again blaming Westminster is a handy thing to do. I think you might feel slightly differently if Yes wins and Salmond has the Red Flag flying over Holyrood and you end with a tax and spend socialist government

3. Really no

4. Yes I totally understand. We should get rid of these obscene things

5. You are not fighting you are going through a perfectly proper and peaceful democratic process

6. No. Scotland is over represented in Westminster ( or at least used to be, not sure exactly what the numbers are today) so historically at least you can blame your own countrymen for some if this

7. I think Scotland can manage perfectly well on its own. That's never really been an issue as far as I'm concerned

8. I think that the debate has become hijacked by this issue. To answer your question though, if that's how you feel then there's no doubt you should go for separation.


I want the UK to stay as it is ( geographically at least)
Thev UK is a great country losing Scotland would be horrible, from my perspective.

tony de wonderful

SNP used to be known as the Tartan Tories. Salmond is doing a great job of being all things to all people, and selling empty 'change' as a positive.

You know he wrote a letter to Fred Goodwin, before RBS bought that Dutch bank, imploring him to make the Scottish people proud?! Now he's supposed to be some antithesis to the domination of politics by financial interests!

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

First off the questions were for Jonc and not you but hay ho ok have a crack

notice straight of the bat questions 6,7,8 were not in you answers
picking and choosing are we

Edit - thanks for editing these in LOL

to your answers

1, westminster is in charge they are to blame it was there doing
the debt is in fact not as much scotlands as its only 8.3% scotland

2, no I wont and dont EVER try to think how I would feel as you dont know me in the slightest

3, then you are blind or simply dont care what happens to other people as long as it does not effect you

4, at least something we can agree on

5, maybe not me personally but the SNP is fighting for us !

6, I dont want scotland to be represented in westminster either I want our MP's out of that den of snakes and back in hollyrood where they belong with independence

7, that is perfectly correct

8,I will be

scotland is good for the UK but the UK is not good for scotland

Martin2005

No I've been writing it on a stupid phone and messed up All my answers should be there now

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

LOL I have used my phone a few times on this thread it is a nightmare and predictive text annoys me almost as much as westminster does

Martin2005

I didn't appreciate your response to point 3, nothing could be further from the truth