nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Ok lets touch down on this point shall we

do you agree that westminster are trying to privatize the english NHS

do you agree that the bedroom tax was designed to hit the poorest of the country

do you agree OAP's probably wouldnt of been freezing to death during winter if westminster and thatcher had not sold of public services for there own gains

do you agree charging for further education make things harder for the poor in the nation to get educated

do you agree with that westminster target budget cuts to the disabled the weakest and most vulnerable of our society

do you agree that westminster dragged the uk into 1 trillion of debt and dont say that scotland had a part to play in that as westminster makes the decisions.

can you straight faced disagree with any of this

and most of these dont affect me as I am in a high paid career and bought home with full bupa health care for me and my family
so these make me fearfull for other people ,, the most vulnerable people I am concerned about

I am not voting yes for myself I am voting yes for the future of other people
and the future of my children

Martin2005

Are you voting Yes for a socialist Scotland? Your points are highly political and somewhat hypobolic

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

no answer then ?

then I stand by what I said about question three

Martin2005

I will answer all those points later when I chance. I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from.
You appearcto have lurched from pro- independence into pro-socialism. Which is it that you actually want?

jonc

I have no opinion of the bedroom tax, the privatisation of the NHS, whether Westminster are greedy and self-serving, freezing OAPs, Thatcher, etc, etc with regards to Scotland's independence. I don't see they would affect Scotland after independence. Hope that is clear enough for you.

Ok, with regards to the £12bn deficit and the £1tn UK debt, they are two separate things. £12bn deficit is in Scotland's public spending ie, tax revenue vs public expenditure. So post-independence, there will be £12bn less to spend on public services or there will be increase in taxes.

The UK debt is managed by England's central bank and UK's triple A credit rating in the bond market, neither of which an iScotland will have.

iScotland's policies doesn't mean squat if the government can't finance it. The prospect of an independent Scotland is completely and whole dependent of having a solid plan(s) on it's monetary policies to be able to finance it and continue to finance it after independence. As of stands, with only 2 weeks left, Alex Salmond has no solid or agreed an plan with the UK Government or even with the Chairman of the Yes Scotland campaign. Here, madness depends on who's view point you are looking at.

I neither agree nor disagree with policies of Westminster or their "sinister adgenda" you listed in relation to Scotland getting independence.

Not really, so you've illustrated a nuclear blast radius should an accident occur, but Scotland also has 2 active nuclear power stations around 30 miles away from Glasgow and Edinburgh and will continue to operate until 2023.

If your posts aren't emotive, I don't know what is!

No I don't agree. Politicians will always be politicians whichever side of the border. It just comes down to who's propaganda you want to believe in.

It's not a question of could they manage on their own post-independence, iScotland will have to manage on their own. The question is how hard or easy it will be for iScotland to manage as an independent state. Sure you have oil, but the tax revenue generated still only provides a small albeit not insignificant contribution towards the total public expenditure required per year. Also for every publication in support for independence, you'll find and equal number against it so that point is moot.

I'm not here to validate your point of view, you want independence, well good for you. There is an equal (slightly more if you believe the polls) who don't want independence too.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

Ok I will hold you to that

My only approach is for whats best for the people of the country I live in nothing more

I want a fairer society and know it will never be 100% fairer
but with independence I know it will be better for the people of scotland than staying in the UK

JTaylor

From page 3.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

LOL Oh yea its perfectly clear you have a opinion about scottish independence but have no opinion on whats happening where YOU live

and off course it would affect scotland after independence FFS
because westminster would not have a say in the matter on implementing these policies

and a nuclear power plant is not a nuclear weapon now is it as a power plant is for generating power and a WMD is for slaughter people
so not just on accident factors it the purpose why they were created that I am opposed to as well !!

About the deficit why did the financial time state scotland would be better off from day one then ?
Surely they have access to much better information than you do to the financials in scotland and teams of people trained to Annalise it as well
or are you going to post the same link again

I never asked you to validate anything I asked if you could blame us for wanting independence
nor did you answer the question whether you understand why I want independence which obviously you dont

hodgy0_2

But it is political, or have I missed something

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

precisely hodgy thank you

my views and opinions are based on several things and not singled into one category like mr one trick pony who has opinions on one thing and has no opinions on everything else

JTaylor

Are you a socialist, Nizmo?

hodgy0_2

Define socialist

JTaylor

I'm asking Nizmo, not you.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

in what sense JT


I feel tax revenues should pay for better schools and a free NHS which is based on people care rather than what you can afford obviously paying nation insurance of course for the working
Free further education to further educate as many people as possible
as a educated country is a more productive economy.

I think lay abouts and dole chasers should be forced out to work
drug addicts and junkie thieves should not get council houses and make it as hard as possible for them with much bigger jail sentences
and people who have hit hard times through no fault of there own IE. people who are hard working who have maybe lost there jobs should have good benifits and as much help as possible to get working again as long as they are trying to get another job.

I think goverments need to try harder to crush drugs coming into scotland and the people who smuggle and deal them to protect our children.

I feel when you grow old you should have the care you require as you probably have spent most of your life putting into the system.

I feel the government is elected to serve the people and not to serve themselves

this is just a small amount on how I feel so do you think am I a socialist from some of how I feel

JTaylor

A lot of fair points in there, but tell me this: do you think or feel that there should be social ownership of the means of production? Also, are you familiar with the 79 Group?

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

not familiar mate could you explain please

and I feel the NHS, electricity, gas, transportation and mail should be publicly owned and not privatized to greedy corporations like it used to be before the thatcher era

maybe the deficit would not be so bad if the money was still pouring in to the treasury from these assets
instead most of them was sold off for corporations to make the money on them for a quick cash fix and some backhanders to politicians
which ultimitly left the government in a worse position

Martin2005

This is about way more than just politics

JTaylor

Here you go:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/79_Group

Fair enough. Pretty much a socialist I'd say and a nationalist, too. Salmond's your man. Best of luck to you.

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

No its not it all goes into politics every single thing
from policies to financials !

JTaylor

My political science lecturer at uni' used to say that everything was politics.

hodgy0_2

Rubbish,

It is exactly that, not some ridiculous nostalgia about the "Union"

It is, as Nizmo has said, about how the Government treats its citizens it is exactly about politics

That is what the no campaign has failed to understand

Martin2005

Culture, History, Economics, Ideals, Place in the World

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

He sound like a smart man

there is also a saying " If you want to make enemy's try and change something "

Which I directly attach to Salmond he is trying to change the future of scotland for the better
and has came up against a massive corrupt westminster a biased media
BBC and majority of newspapers heavily influenced by westminster
it really is a david and Goliath affair


thank you hodgy it is good to see another person who understands

nizmo80

iTrader: (2)

all influenced in politics and there polices

Ok lets try this another way state something I have said and why it does not relate to politics and I will debate why it does !

Martin2005

1. do you agree that westminster are trying to privatize the english NHS?

No that is demonstrably nonsense, the NHS is funded by the taxpayer, the day it isn't then you can tell me it's been privatised.

[B]2. do you agree that the bedroom tax was designed to hit the poorest of the country
Quick but very important semantic point the 'bedroom tax' is in fact the exact opposite of a tax.
Do I agree with the policy, no not really

3.do you agree OAP's probably wouldnt of been freezing to death during winter if westminster and thatcher had not sold of public services for there own gains?

Yes of course I agree that OAPs should freeze to death


4. do you agree charging for further education make things harder for the poor in the nation to get educated

No what I think is unfair is poor working class people funding the higher education of the middle classes, which is what the old system resulted in.

5. do you agree with that westminster target budget cuts to the disabled the weakest and most vulnerable of our society

I'm not sure I'd use the word 'target'.
In straightforward money terms it's the middle class have been 'targeted' as shown by the huge fall in disposable income

6. do you agree that westminster dragged the uk into 1 trillion of debt and dont say that scotland had a part to play in that as westminster makes the decisions.

Do you understand the irony of what you are saying here?

On one hand you are castigating Westminster for creating a huge debt, and on the other criticising them for not spending enough.

The bottom-line here is that the money is spent, the government spent it on you and me. This is as much Scotlands issue as it is Westminsters, as you will undoubtedly find out if you ever have the misfortune to live in the socialist republic of Scotland

7. can you straight faced disagree with any of this

Mostly yes

Martin2005

And politics is shaped by them

hodgy0_2

Those are just words on a page Martin

And anyway scotland has all that, from Robbie Burns through Adam Smith and David Hume via john logie baird - Giants of modern humanity

Scotland does not need any lessons from us

Get of your high horse and smell the coffee

Martin2005

I don't think anyone was offering them a lesson

And 'high horse' LOL.

JTaylor

But Nizmo seems to be a socialist republican, so he's reasoned that this wouldn't be unfortunate, he's reasoned that it will be better. Two things need to happen; the YES vote needs to succeed and then history will demonstrate whether Nizmo and Salmond have it right. Isn't it hubris on your part to assume that it won't work?

Martin2005

I don't think there's any reason to believe that an independent Scotland can't work, I've not said it can't.

Indeed a Salmond SNP administration would not necessarily be in power there for long.

I think the history of the world tells us though that socialism doesn't necessarily deliver what it's supposed to