Scottish Independence
09 August 2014, 11:30 AM
#571
This is all quite laughable to me.
It's a case of the blind leading the blind and the only real reason the Scotts seem to want independence is because historically they've never had it.
Knock, knock, HELLO. Do you seriously think that it's been any different for the rest of us outside London?
I share common ground as I think most of us non Londoners do with the Scotts, I don't like London or politicians but we're stuck with them.
Just as in the past where your gentry/ land owners sold you down the river they will do it again, non of these people in positions of power give a **** about the man on the street, they just want a free reign to do as they please even more so than they have now, to make even more money.
Mark my words; they'll sell everything they can, land, oil, gas, fishing rights.
There will be a feeding frenzy if you get independence, only those at the top of the food chain will benefit, the rest of you and future generations will be left to pick up the tab.
Nostradamus.
It's a case of the blind leading the blind and the only real reason the Scotts seem to want independence is because historically they've never had it.
Knock, knock, HELLO. Do you seriously think that it's been any different for the rest of us outside London?
I share common ground as I think most of us non Londoners do with the Scotts, I don't like London or politicians but we're stuck with them.
Just as in the past where your gentry/ land owners sold you down the river they will do it again, non of these people in positions of power give a **** about the man on the street, they just want a free reign to do as they please even more so than they have now, to make even more money.
Mark my words; they'll sell everything they can, land, oil, gas, fishing rights.
There will be a feeding frenzy if you get independence, only those at the top of the food chain will benefit, the rest of you and future generations will be left to pick up the tab.
Nostradamus.
09 August 2014, 11:43 AM
#572
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This is all quite laughable to me.
It's a case of the blind leading the blind and the only real reason the Scotts seem to want independence is because historically they've never had it.
Knock, knock, HELLO. Do you seriously think that it's been any different for the rest of us outside London?
I share common ground as I think most of us non Londoners do with the Scotts, I don't like London or politicians but we're stuck with them.
Just as in the past where your gentry/ land owners sold you down the river they will do it again, non of these people in positions of power give a **** about the man on the street, they just want a free reign to do as they please even more so than they have now, to make even more money.
Mark my words; they'll sell everything they can, land, oil, gas, fishing rights.
There will be a feeding frenzy if you get independence, only those at the top of the food chain will benefit, the rest of you and future generations will be left to pick up the tab.
Nostradamus.
It's a case of the blind leading the blind and the only real reason the Scotts seem to want independence is because historically they've never had it.
Knock, knock, HELLO. Do you seriously think that it's been any different for the rest of us outside London?
I share common ground as I think most of us non Londoners do with the Scotts, I don't like London or politicians but we're stuck with them.
Just as in the past where your gentry/ land owners sold you down the river they will do it again, non of these people in positions of power give a **** about the man on the street, they just want a free reign to do as they please even more so than they have now, to make even more money.
Mark my words; they'll sell everything they can, land, oil, gas, fishing rights.
There will be a feeding frenzy if you get independence, only those at the top of the food chain will benefit, the rest of you and future generations will be left to pick up the tab.
Nostradamus.
09 August 2014, 01:10 PM
#573
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This is all quite laughable to me.
It's a case of the blind leading the blind and the only real reason the Scotts seem to want independence is because historically they've never had it.
not true ditchmyster I want independance because I think westminster does a p1ss poor job already and hopefully Scottish politicians might do better and if not I am sure they cant be worse than what we already have running the country.
and if you think us scots are better off with Westminster running us then it is you who are blind and you can laugh about it all you want
Knock, knock, HELLO. Do you seriously think that it's been any different for the rest of us outside London?
Yes I do think it will be different as if I thought it wouldnt I would vote no
I share common ground as I think most of us non Londoners do with the Scotts, I don't like London or politicians but we're stuck with them.
thats where you are wrong, on september the 18th if the yes vote is the majority then we wont be stuck with them.
Just as in the past where your gentry/ land owners sold you down the river they will do it again, non of these people in positions of power give a **** about the man on the street, they just want a free reign to do as they please even more so than they have now, to make even more money.
is that any different from the polititians in Westminster ?
Mark my words; they'll sell everything they can, land, oil, gas, fishing rights.
Westminster already done this
and if it was not for thatcher privatizing the public services like energy companys and selling them to her friends maybe we would not have old age pensioners freezing to death because they are too scared to turn on the fire because they cant afford the bills !
There will be a feeding frenzy if you get independence, only those at the top of the food chain will benefit, the rest of you and future generations will be left to pick up the tab.
we have spent years picking up the tab of westminsters feeding freny
Nostradamus.
Nostradamus also wrote a prediction "The year 1999, seventh month / From the sky will come great king of terror." and nothing happened so my assumption is he was dabbling with too many
funky exotic herbs and was high as a kite most of the time
It's a case of the blind leading the blind and the only real reason the Scotts seem to want independence is because historically they've never had it.
not true ditchmyster I want independance because I think westminster does a p1ss poor job already and hopefully Scottish politicians might do better and if not I am sure they cant be worse than what we already have running the country.
and if you think us scots are better off with Westminster running us then it is you who are blind and you can laugh about it all you want
Knock, knock, HELLO. Do you seriously think that it's been any different for the rest of us outside London?
Yes I do think it will be different as if I thought it wouldnt I would vote no
I share common ground as I think most of us non Londoners do with the Scotts, I don't like London or politicians but we're stuck with them.
thats where you are wrong, on september the 18th if the yes vote is the majority then we wont be stuck with them.
Just as in the past where your gentry/ land owners sold you down the river they will do it again, non of these people in positions of power give a **** about the man on the street, they just want a free reign to do as they please even more so than they have now, to make even more money.
is that any different from the polititians in Westminster ?
Mark my words; they'll sell everything they can, land, oil, gas, fishing rights.
Westminster already done this
and if it was not for thatcher privatizing the public services like energy companys and selling them to her friends maybe we would not have old age pensioners freezing to death because they are too scared to turn on the fire because they cant afford the bills !
There will be a feeding frenzy if you get independence, only those at the top of the food chain will benefit, the rest of you and future generations will be left to pick up the tab.
we have spent years picking up the tab of westminsters feeding freny
Nostradamus.
Nostradamus also wrote a prediction "The year 1999, seventh month / From the sky will come great king of terror." and nothing happened so my assumption is he was dabbling with too many
funky exotic herbs and was high as a kite most of the time
have a nice day
Last edited by nizmo80; 09 August 2014 at 01:22 PM.
09 August 2014, 01:22 PM
#574
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Oil & Gas, already been sold by Thatcher.
Fishing Rights, the fishing fleet was scrapped by Westminster 15 years ago (this is how I ended up working offshore)) and replaced by French and Spanish vessels.
Land, well who knows.
But thats two thirds of your list already been sold off by Westminster.
09 August 2014, 03:52 PM
#575
Well it's obvious I know **** all about Scotland, but I still recon you'll be getting shafted some how.
Oh and I'm not attacking you boys more the powers that be so no need to get all defensive, I hope you get Independence if that's what the majority wants, I don't see it affecting me as i've already voted with my feet and left the **** hole that is the UK.
Oh and I'm not attacking you boys more the powers that be so no need to get all defensive, I hope you get Independence if that's what the majority wants, I don't see it affecting me as i've already voted with my feet and left the **** hole that is the UK.
09 August 2014, 03:57 PM
#576
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Well it's obvious I know **** all about Scotland, but I still recon you'll be getting shafted some how.
Oh and I'm not attacking you boys more the powers that be so no need to get all defensive, I hope you get Independence if that's what the majority wants, I don't see it affecting me as i've already voted with my feet and left the **** hole that is the UK.
Oh and I'm not attacking you boys more the powers that be so no need to get all defensive, I hope you get Independence if that's what the majority wants, I don't see it affecting me as i've already voted with my feet and left the **** hole that is the UK.
not being defensive ditch I did say have a nice day and gave you a
If my wife was not so close to her family and could not stand being too far away from them I would move out of the uk and live abroad as well
09 August 2014, 06:39 PM
#577
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None of us know how much money Scotland generates and how much it costs
To run Scotland.
So neither me nor you can dispute whether or not we have the money to sustain our selfs.
But if we don't contribute more than take back in terms of tax and resources
Why is Westminster trying so hard to keep Scotland ?
My opinion we don't need England and I am more than happy to say yes and go it alone for better or worse we hopefully won't be taking orders from a out of touch and corrupt Westminster for much longer.
To run Scotland.
So neither me nor you can dispute whether or not we have the money to sustain our selfs.
But if we don't contribute more than take back in terms of tax and resources
Why is Westminster trying so hard to keep Scotland ?
My opinion we don't need England and I am more than happy to say yes and go it alone for better or worse we hopefully won't be taking orders from a out of touch and corrupt Westminster for much longer.
iScotland will have no foreign currency reserves, or any credit history to allow for cheap borrowing from other countries or institutions. Yes you have oil but that is as yet to be decided how much of it iScotland will own, though it is likely to be 90% if it's decided geographically and of course it takes time to realise that into tax revenues. I would imagine taxes would have to rise substantially to in the private sector in order to finance the public expenditure required for independence and public spending for things like education, health service, welfare, local authorities will be cut drastically, at least for the first few years or so.
Westminster doesn't want independence because of the difficulties surrounding it, especially when the UK economy is just starting it's recovery and growth. Also UK is stronger as a whole with Scotland both economically and influential standing on the global stage. Obviously there will also be a substantial cost to rUK too if Scotland separates.
You might disagree and I'm not trying to change your point of view. Independence will have a massive impact to rUK of which I am a part of and this is my point of view. Good luck to you and iScotland if that is what you want.
10 August 2014, 06:01 AM
#578
Nizmo.
Ok so now I know slightly more about Scotland,
where's the apparent £12bn that's missing going to come from.
Jonc makes some very valid points about the cost of setting up iScotland, it's all well and good shouting "Freedom" a la Mel Gibson style, but it's got to be financed somehow.
The only way I see that happening is through the EU like they are doing out here in Croatia, but that comes at a price. Over here that's in the form of selling off national assets, roads to the French, telecoms to the Germans and now they are currently selling the government owned aspect of the petrochemical industry and quite a few islands.
The biggest industry out here is tourism and the dumb ***** already sold most of the hotels and resorts to foreign companies so the vast majority of the profit goes outside.
Perfect example of how stupid or corrupt they are here is the local Tunnel that is the main route to the rest of Croatia, it was built in Tito's time using public funds and when it ran into financial difficulty they docked everyone here 2 months wages with the promise of never having to pay to use it, 20yrs on they sell it to the French in some dodgy deal for next to nothing and in the time i've been here (8yrs) it's gone from being 30p to €4.00 along with the roads leading to it being turned into toll roads,(which doesn't sound a lot but the average wage out here is around €400) add to that the government in their wisdom gives them €20m a year in tax breaks just for the tunnel
It's just one dodgy deal after another out here and the only ones that are benefiting is the government ministers and outside investors.
I fear it will be the same for you guys in iScotland.
Ok so now I know slightly more about Scotland,
where's the apparent £12bn that's missing going to come from.Jonc makes some very valid points about the cost of setting up iScotland, it's all well and good shouting "Freedom" a la Mel Gibson style, but it's got to be financed somehow.
The only way I see that happening is through the EU like they are doing out here in Croatia, but that comes at a price. Over here that's in the form of selling off national assets, roads to the French, telecoms to the Germans and now they are currently selling the government owned aspect of the petrochemical industry and quite a few islands.
The biggest industry out here is tourism and the dumb ***** already sold most of the hotels and resorts to foreign companies so the vast majority of the profit goes outside.
Perfect example of how stupid or corrupt they are here is the local Tunnel that is the main route to the rest of Croatia, it was built in Tito's time using public funds and when it ran into financial difficulty they docked everyone here 2 months wages with the promise of never having to pay to use it, 20yrs on they sell it to the French in some dodgy deal for next to nothing and in the time i've been here (8yrs) it's gone from being 30p to €4.00 along with the roads leading to it being turned into toll roads,(which doesn't sound a lot but the average wage out here is around €400) add to that the government in their wisdom gives them €20m a year in tax breaks just for the tunnel
It's just one dodgy deal after another out here and the only ones that are benefiting is the government ministers and outside investors.
I fear it will be the same for you guys in iScotland.
10 August 2014, 06:40 AM
#579
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Regarding the EU I would rather stay and be Governed by Westminster than by Brussels TBH, the EU is a case of out of the frying pan into the fire as far as I can see.
10 August 2014, 07:40 AM
#580
Sorry guys but from watching that vid of the ex con junki I't seems to me like none of this is based on the financial reality of the situation, it's built on the history of oppression, which ultimately was facilitated by a large number of you fellow country men.
Can you tell the vast majority of my knowledge on Scotland is based on Breveheart.
And Rab c Nesbit.
I't seems to me like none of this is based on the financial reality of the situation, it's built on the history of oppression, which ultimately was facilitated by a large number of you fellow country men.Can you tell the vast majority of my knowledge on Scotland is based on Breveheart.
And Rab c Nesbit.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 10 August 2014 at 07:42 AM.
11 August 2014, 03:13 PM
#582
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No doubt he is pretty passionate for an independent Scotland and what he wants for Scotland sounds great, but how much will it cost and how does he propose he pay for it all? It's all romantic rose tinted views and of little substance as he doesn't actually explain what independence will actually bring; the benefits and the difficulties. Even Alex Salmond doesn't go into how much independence will cost for everyone in Scotland.
http://www.scottishconservatives.com...-independence/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-up-costs.html
I hear a lot of criticisms of Westminster, and some well deserved, but the thing that strikes me is how little emphasis there is on the real benefits for independence from the Yes camp but a lot about negative aspects of what it could mean for rUK.
http://www.scottishconservatives.com...-independence/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-up-costs.html
I hear a lot of criticisms of Westminster, and some well deserved, but the thing that strikes me is how little emphasis there is on the real benefits for independence from the Yes camp but a lot about negative aspects of what it could mean for rUK.
If you want to retain credibility in all of this, linking to the Scottish Conservatives website is hardly the way to do it. And no, I'm no socialist.
Incidentally, when I clicked the link, I got a message saying that the scottish conservatives website was "not responding". Which pretty much sums up their gravitas in all this.
11 August 2014, 05:10 PM
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20 August 2014, 12:29 PM
#585
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Jon,
If you want to retain credibility in all of this, linking to the Scottish Conservatives website is hardly the way to do it. And no, I'm no socialist.
Incidentally, when I clicked the link, I got a message saying that the scottish conservatives website was "not responding". Which pretty much sums up their gravitas in all this.
If you want to retain credibility in all of this, linking to the Scottish Conservatives website is hardly the way to do it. And no, I'm no socialist.
Incidentally, when I clicked the link, I got a message saying that the scottish conservatives website was "not responding". Which pretty much sums up their gravitas in all this.
Prepare for the possibility that things might get a little tougher come a No vote. There is an old saying, you reap what you sow....
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...lish-attitudes
http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...e-shared-pound
Last edited by jonc; 20 August 2014 at 12:32 PM.
20 August 2014, 12:47 PM
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And your rather extensive quote of a blogger from the pro-independence Yes2014 site is more credible?
Prepare for the possibility that things might get a little tougher come a No vote. There is an old saying, you reap what you sow....
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...lish-attitudes
http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...e-shared-pound
Prepare for the possibility that things might get a little tougher come a No vote. There is an old saying, you reap what you sow....
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...lish-attitudes
http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...e-shared-pound
As ever I am embarrassed to be English!
20 August 2014, 01:30 PM
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20 August 2014, 01:34 PM
#588
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And your rather extensive quote of a blogger from the pro-independence Yes2014 site is more credible?
Prepare for the possibility that things might get a little tougher come a No vote. There is an old saying, you reap what you sow....
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...lish-attitudes
http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...e-shared-pound
Prepare for the possibility that things might get a little tougher come a No vote. There is an old saying, you reap what you sow....
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...lish-attitudes
http://www.theguardian.com/news/data...e-shared-pound
Anyway, here's more on the lines of your links above Jon
http://wingsoverscotland.com/here-comes-the-love/
"Better together" my ****
20 August 2014, 02:34 PM
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Petty and pathetic for expecting an newly declared independent country to ACTUALLY BE independent and stand on its own two feet? They want independence, fine. But the apron strings get cut. You're the one who is embarrassing!
20 August 2014, 02:51 PM
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English voters want Scottish spending cut after no vote, survey shows
Future of England Survey 2014 reveals attitudes hardening whichever way Scotland votes in September referendum
Future of England Survey 2014 reveals attitudes hardening whichever way Scotland votes in September referendum
Last edited by f1_fan; 20 August 2014 at 02:54 PM.
20 August 2014, 03:19 PM
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20 August 2014, 03:48 PM
#593
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My quote illustrates a thought process. Which is more than we've seen from "better together"
Anyway, here's more on the lines of your links above Jon
http://wingsoverscotland.com/here-comes-the-love/
"Better together" my ****
Anyway, here's more on the lines of your links above Jon
http://wingsoverscotland.com/here-comes-the-love/
"Better together" my ****
20 August 2014, 10:18 PM
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21 August 2014, 08:37 AM
#595
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Westminster have only denied what Alex Salmond assumed he would be able to get as part of Scotland's independence. Scotland was never on the radar for many south of the border until the campaign for independence, nothing like to what it is now and Alex Salmond has driven a great wedge between Scotland and rUK relations.
21 August 2014, 09:04 AM
#596
Am I missing something regarding the pound?
As I see it, the pound belongs to the UK, not just England. Scotland being still part of the UK has as much right to it as England.
Look at it the other way. Suppose it were England looking for independence from the rest of the UK, could they then stop Wales, Scotland, and N.I from using it?
As I see it, the pound belongs to the UK, not just England. Scotland being still part of the UK has as much right to it as England.
Look at it the other way. Suppose it were England looking for independence from the rest of the UK, could they then stop Wales, Scotland, and N.I from using it?
21 August 2014, 09:12 AM
#597
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Am I missing something regarding the pound?
As I see it, the pound belongs to the UK, not just England. Scotland being still part of the UK has as much right to it as England.
Look at it the other way. Suppose it were England looking for independence from the rest of the UK, could they then stop Wales, Scotland, and N.I from using it?
As I see it, the pound belongs to the UK, not just England. Scotland being still part of the UK has as much right to it as England.
Look at it the other way. Suppose it were England looking for independence from the rest of the UK, could they then stop Wales, Scotland, and N.I from using it?
21 August 2014, 09:20 AM
#598
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Westminster have only denied what Alex Salmond assumed he would be able to get as part of Scotland's independence. Scotland was never on the radar for many south of the border until the campaign for independence, nothing like to what it is now and Alex Salmond has driven a great wedge between Scotland and rUK relations.
But not living in Scotland you wouldn't understand that, instead you hypothisise based on what you *think* is the case.
The fact that, in your own words, "Scotland was never on the radar for many south of the border" pretty much sums up all that is wrong with the English.
I see it professionally al the time. As an example, educated, highly qualified individuals working in banking, accountancy and law, who are not even aware that Scotland has its own completely separate legal system.
At least now Scotland very much is on the Radar for the English and that should only be a good thing in the long term, whatever the outcome.
I was thinking about the opinions of those in England in the event of a no vote. If there is a big push from Boris and the rest to try and take away devolved powers, or make changes in some petty retaliation for a referendum on indepndence (seriously, are English people so insecure??) then all that will happen is that Scottish people's resolve to be indepent will be stronger.
Last edited by Devildog; 21 August 2014 at 09:29 AM.
21 August 2014, 11:00 AM
#599
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I suspect Dunk means since way before the referendum was even on the radar.
But not living in Scotland you wouldn't understand that, instead you hypothisise based on what you *think* is the case.
The fact that, in your own words, "Scotland was never on the radar for many south of the border" pretty much sums up all that is wrong with the English.
I see it professionally al the time. As an example, educated, highly qualified individuals working in banking, accountancy and law, who are not even aware that Scotland has its own completely separate legal system.
At least now Scotland very much is on the Radar for the English and that should only be a good thing in the long term, whatever the outcome.
I was thinking about the opinions of those in England in the event of a no vote. If there is a big push from Boris and the rest to try and take away devolved powers, or make changes in some petty retaliation for a referendum on indepndence (seriously, are English people so insecure??) then all that will happen is that Scottish people's resolve to be indepent will be stronger.
But not living in Scotland you wouldn't understand that, instead you hypothisise based on what you *think* is the case.
The fact that, in your own words, "Scotland was never on the radar for many south of the border" pretty much sums up all that is wrong with the English.
I see it professionally al the time. As an example, educated, highly qualified individuals working in banking, accountancy and law, who are not even aware that Scotland has its own completely separate legal system.
At least now Scotland very much is on the Radar for the English and that should only be a good thing in the long term, whatever the outcome.
I was thinking about the opinions of those in England in the event of a no vote. If there is a big push from Boris and the rest to try and take away devolved powers, or make changes in some petty retaliation for a referendum on indepndence (seriously, are English people so insecure??) then all that will happen is that Scottish people's resolve to be indepent will be stronger.
Last edited by jonc; 21 August 2014 at 11:20 AM.
21 August 2014, 11:12 AM
#600
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Am I missing something regarding the pound?
As I see it, the pound belongs to the UK, not just England. Scotland being still part of the UK has as much right to it as England.
Look at it the other way. Suppose it were England looking for independence from the rest of the UK, could they then stop Wales, Scotland, and N.I from using it?
As I see it, the pound belongs to the UK, not just England. Scotland being still part of the UK has as much right to it as England.
Look at it the other way. Suppose it were England looking for independence from the rest of the UK, could they then stop Wales, Scotland, and N.I from using it?