Neanderthal

iTrader: (6)

I've got a Tactrix2 cable if anyone wants to buy it off me if they fancy having a go themselves. PM me

john banks

Pun was unintentional on this occasion

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Re: licensing fees.

This is one gripe I have. Not just with mapping but with automotive work in general.

As a business, one of the big operational overheads for us is the licensing and subscription fees to actually allow us to use the equipment. Some of it is worth it, some of it is a **** take. I could name a few but TBH I don't want it comming back to me should they get wind of me moaning (this is not mapping BTW, its mainly vehicle diagnostics, but its part and parcel of this industry). For us its a huge problem as its severly impacting profitability and the ability to reinvest in furthering the business to meet with the changes in the cars that come into the workshop...for example, we have no equipment that works properly with F-series BMWs. And these are starting to be a regular apperance for work other than basic servicing (as they get to the age where they fall in to the hands of people who own them that don't like paying dealer prices). Added that building needs re-wiring, the driveway round teh back needs resurfacing, we need new surface water drains, new workshop doors, the four post ramp is leaking fluid, and the one two post has fecked up a screw, and looks like its doing the same to the new one (it binds half way up on the one post when lifting a large front heavy car). Thats after spending a tidy sum on tyre equipment that works with run-flats - equipment that I had to purchase with my own money as the business couldn't afford it.

TBH its all touch and go if its worth carrying on...after nearly 50yrs (where many others have bumped their business and ran, leaving debts then starting up elsewhere with a new name...we did the stupid thing and kept solidering on - pride and morals get in the way with us). Its ticks over between the highs and lows, but its barely sustainable. I'm not even taking a regular wage and only work on a consultation basis....thats why I'm sat here in our other business which is basically providing backend support for SMBs TBH thats what I should be focussing on as its makes good money with small overheads....but I love cars...entering data into Sage is as boring a f**k

Shaun

I think there maybe some niavety on this.

What do you consider a lot of the mappers are "making" a year to constitute a "very good living"?

This I would personally see as being their wages.... not what the company balance sheet is!

Tidgy

mm, lack of responce kind says its true don't you think?

its rare you see any of the big well know mappers on here.

But thats not wat this thread is all about

Gigsy

Mobile mapper (i.e. no premises to maintain) at an average of 1 map per day x £300 per map x 5 days x 46 working weeks per year - corporation tax and expenses (a generous £19-29k).... I'd say they should be able to take home (since I've included corp tax above) £40-50k.

Personally, I don't think that is too excessive for expert services but it is a very decent salary none the less.

Given that it is possible to do more than one map per day, but equally there are days outside of the 6 weeks holiday I've factored in already where they won't be working, I don't think the figures should be too far off.

john banks

Someone with the transferable skills of a really good mapper should be able to get themselves a job as an employee with a lot less risk, instant income and no capital investment for that sort of money IMHO. For that reason, if they are self employed they might expect to do better.

Tidgy

add on 1-2k a year for a laptop, add in 5-10k ish for software licenses, insurance and were now down to 25-35k, not looking so rosey is it when you work out figures like that

frayz

iTrader: (7)

I also have a Tactrix cable if anyone wants to buy it.
This thread is better used as a for sale thread anyway.

banzai2009

I'm quite good with electronics etc but tbh ive got to agree some prices are over the top bun that said you spend £900/1000 in a good turbo , pistons injectors cranks etc etc your obviously not poor so why risk say £250/300 saving when you can get a proffesional to do it.. I'd rather pay the extra money and have the pros do it for me but hey I your confident mate good on ya

Not so sure andy f , bob n Simon etc will be over the moon bout this thread but your entitled to your opinion mate

Shaun

I'll buy it! (seriously)

PM me unless it's a wind-up.

Tidgy

i think this is pretty much the crux of it, yes people can do it themselves, however the risk of something going wrong is pretty high and not all have the ability to do it. So is saving a few hundred quid worth the risk of 2k+ engine build cost?

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Just to be different - I do know people like that, and I would ask to see it if there was one available. I'd also call the mapper who mapped it and speak to them too.
Just because a car "feels" like it's driving spot on doesn't mean I can hear knock or detect every little thing going on in the engine.

A graph could show less obvious items, so as well as obvious stuff like spool being late, or the torque curve so low, which you could probably tell from a test drive to an extent, it could also show that fueling is over or under, or show how much boost the car is putting out without having a gauge available.

I know people who've had readings of 380 on similar software to find the car's only running 340, so it's only as good as the person who wrote the software. Wasn't virtual dyno though.

GOOD! Good luck to you and hope it goes well
You never know - you might have missed your calling lol.

And re your mods - very cheap indeed, but your occupation obviously means you're a little more fortunate than some of us to have the tools you require to mod turbos at your disposal, and the knowledge to use them! Sometimes people like myself don't have that choice, hence we have to pay a little more.
If you can get away with it, good luck to you!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

TBH honest with what needs to be ran, you don't need a £1K+ laptop unless they play Crysis in their spare time. Most software will run on XP and a P4 CPU.


The exception is if they want a Panny Toughbook, which is a luxury and it'll last a hell of alot longer than 2 years, but a good aluminium chassis business laptop usually fits the bill for £500+vat (don't forget the VAT is claimed back )...just add a few port-savers to stop the sockets wearing out.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Yet the difference is nothing in mapping, it doesnt matter if its a uk or us or jdm, did you not insinuate that anyway? mapping is mapping and its easy to do

Errrrm nope

Tony

Alan Jeffery

If anybody wants a copy of Duncan's tax return, just send a cheque for £5 payable to "Enginetuner Ltd"
(That's £3.50 for the paperwork and £1.50 for the licence...)

Gigsy

£29k for corp tax and equipment/expenses per year not generous enough?

As mentioned by someone else, £1-2k would buy you 4 laptops per year more than capable of doing mapping on. Last time I had my car mapped by BR, he was running on an old Dell Latitude.

You'll note, that I also said I didn't think £40-50k was an unfair salary for a decent mapper

Gigsy

Is that including or excluding VAT?

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Duncan's tax return?

chopperman

I wonder how many here moaning at price have never had their car pro mapped?

I had my car mapped by a very respected mapper. It took the mapper about 2 1/2 hours.
I paid .
£350 mapping fee
£150 ECUTek licence
£100 vat.
For the total of £600 i got.
40 more bhp
110 ft/lb more torque
plus some cool new toys like ,Launch control ,auto blip ,and flatfoot gear shifting.

All these gains and toys for £600 sounds like a bargain to me

banzai2009

Not quite sure why this thread is here tbh . As said previously a dentist charges £38 for one lousy filling. A burger van charges £3.20 for a double cheese which will of problys cost him 80p to make.. Forged pistons £60 to make??? Then sell them for £400+++

In this world now unfortunately everyone is getting ripped off in highn sight when u look at what things cost but either way either pay the money or do it yourself end of the day everyone has a choice my personal choice is mappers/dentists/doctors etc etc are in there profession to make money an are there because they are the best those are obvious facts I wouldn't try any of those as I'm an engineer as much as I wouldn't expect them to do my trade this is what you call how the world goes round ... I make money give it to a mapper, he makes money gives it to a garage for parts engine build etc..

Me personally will stick to getting the specific professionals to do what I'm not trained to instead of "giving it a go" because Im not willing to risk it. But good on ya mate if you've figured out te mapping thing. Now all u need is to prove your knowledge hope it works for ya

Gigsy

Yes thanks, twice. That's what got me interested in self mapping in the first place... seemed like a really interesting subject and something I wanted to have a go at.

If (or rather when ) I decide to modify my car further and to the point where I don't feel 100% confident to adjust the map myself, at that point I would happily pay a mapper to help me - even if it was just as a safety net to check my work.

(Still don't think the EcuTek license fee is justified but that's just my own personal opinion).

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Well on one occasion I had a little bit of a mix up with my avcs table because the assumption was I was running it , until I pointed out it was edm
So there's one instance
And yes mapping is the same no matter which country
I don't understand your negative attitude to having a section on here tony
It's starting to lead me to think you have some hidden agenda to why your so against it
For members it would only be a bonus
And other than romraider , open ecu , nasioc , where would you think I have found information out ?
Very odd indeed

toneh

iTrader: (1)

This is where we nead a reality check To compare a mapper to a doctor or dentist and imply they rank at the same professional level and wage level is madness , ( unless its sam the dentist ) why not chuck in surgeons
Your comparing mappers rates and profession against people who could be in a profession that has to make on occasion a diagnosis that someone's life could depend on
Not make a car run well
Utter madness

chopperman

I have nothing against self mappers. All i was doing was pointing out value for money in what i paid and what i got. What else could you buy for the same money with the same gains?
As for map tweak prices, Lots of companys have a minimum service charge. I think some think mapping is a rip off because they cant see a new shiny part in their hands. Plenty will spend hundreds on a nice shiny BOV that does nothing but flinch as a software upgrade.

AlanPPP

iTrader: (2)

I have to say that after reading all the comments in this thread I have a lot of respect for Paul at Zen.

Before this his reputation preceded him but now I wouldn't hesitate in handing over my money to him, it sounds like not only will he get the best out of my car but also give damn about the car itself which is priceless IMO.

Being an electrician I face a weekly battle with cowboys and also people complaining about the prices that are charged (which are NOT excessive!) anything to cut corners and push people out who have spent years training there craft.

banzai2009

Words "nail on a head spring to mind" exactly that mate..

Not saying in anyway your a cowboy tone but in fairness when it comes to the likes of Paul , andy f , bob Rawle etc etc with all respect mate your way out your depth,. These guys charge that ammount because they have been at it years and are the best at what they do .. Just look at there company cars andy f's 8/9 sec car etc.. It's all relevant about the professions people charge what they want because they are the best in there fields.

Not saying in anyway before this comes out wrong that you don know what your doing but as said above there are far too many cowboys about claiming there this and that undercutting the professionals to make a buck. Me personally think they charge what they charge for a reason wether I agree with it or not they are who they are and charge that because they know they've got something more than the average guys can offer ..

But tbh there's a reason why most if not all the top mappers don't come on here is because it's been pointed out people with all the gear and no idea I know if I was one of those guys I'd be extreme fustrated with people claiming mapping is easy cos tbh to me it's difficult not quite sure why your attacking these very well respected mappers tbh mate

But as I've pointed out fair play to you mate for being able to save yourself some money doing your own car but tbh I'd double think about doing other peoples just Incase

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Mate I know what you mean , but please don't say things like (I'd double think about doing other cars )
I'm a little sick of saying it , the total number of cars Ill ever deal with is two
I must have said it a thousand times now
Sorry if I've come across a little snotty again but i have said it numerous times in this thread

Tony

banzai2009

Sorry mate missed that bit but tbh if I had the confidence to do my own I would if I had the know how but these days money is tight

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Well he does post a hell of alot of wink smilies. Some folk may get the wrong idea and think he's flirting .

I'm all for freedom of information. Its the number one fustration I have when working on cars where I'm trying to do something but can't because to gain access to said information will cost me £xxxx.

For example I have a long term intermittant glitch with my Golf, 99% of the time its ok, but that 1% drives me nuts becuase I can't diagnose what is causing it (FYI it never logs a fault code). Now of course I have the usual VAG-COM stuff with its live data and the usual VAG forums at my disposal, but its still cloaks and daggers combined with a shed load of internet hearsay. I could entrust the car to an alleged expert, but TBH I don't think they could sort it either. Local dealerships have already wasted my money. Remapping the ECU probably is a work-around, but I'm not paying £xxx only to find it doesn't fix the issue. Whereas I'm pretty certain if I had more accurate and in depth information I could probably work through the issue and sort it out myself.

With regards to forums, I think this makes the difference, actually helping to work through things and come up with solution and provide the indepth data required rather than just palm it off onto some locally regarded "expert" or blaming some random component to be causing the issue without any real valid justification as to why (other that repeating what some other self-proclaimed expert has previously said).

To me thats what car forums are about...sharing that crucial information that each individual aquires..not repeating some old wives tale about dry cranking after oil fiter changes, not using 95RON fuel and refering people to obtain the services of a regarded expert.