MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

F**k me sideways - £60 for a 16g with up pipe?
Jesus, I'd say that's very lucky as opposed to typical prices.
And £120 for 3" decat - is that a full exhaust / cat back / down pipe? Again, excellent price and I'd say an exception rather than the norm.

What's worth also considering if that many second hand 16g's won't fit newage cars as the majority that come up second hand aren't front entry, which means people are stuck with upgrading to an IHI turbo or aftermarket offering, and the accepted price for a VF35 for example is about £300-350. Fair enough if you've managed to mod your car so cheap, but I think the unfortunate truth is many of us aren't so lucky.
The majority of my parts are second hand and yet I didn't manage to get quite such a bargain as you.

Re your comments about Tidgy, meet up and chat by all means, but ultimately it'll prove little - the proof's in the dyno result mate.
If you want to start making a name for yourself it's only £50 to prove the worth of your map, and you can post the figures up and silence some of the non believers.
Tidgy is going to ScoobyClinic - they have a Dyno - I make that Pimms O'Clock

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

You two are going to get on like a house on fire, beemers and scoobs, a match made in heaven.

sandyRS16i

iTrader: (13)

Simples, pays your money and take your choice. If you think someone is charging too much and you can get a better service elsewhere then use them - if that's the case then sooner or later they will have to a) reduce their prices to be competitive or b) close their business.

Seems like some users on here would rather have a VAG Revo mapping system where tuners just uploads one of their vast database of maps to best fit the mods rather than a custom mapped car to have the highest level of safety and performance possible. Each to their own but considering an ECU costs £1k+ then paying someone circa £300 for a few hours work seems acceptable - if you go to 'joe bloggs backstreet mapping' - see how much solicitors charge an hour when you have to go through them to get compensation for him blowing your car up!!!

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Lol don't tell em that mate
They think I'm a tosser already , never mind bm,s

Tidgy

dont worry, i know bmw drivers a *****,,, o hang on,,, hahaha

have you done your 'driving like a ****' advanced course yet?

toneh

iTrader: (1)

No mate Its quite the norm , it's just you've got to mod most of the td,s to front entry
Lol , we're going round in circles , I've point blank said I'll take it to zen or clinic to get some power figures , but it's been said no point because it's not gonna prove my map ,,,, seems like I can't win
So I think tidgy seeing the car having a chat is a good start to going some way to explain the method in my madness

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah I know all the hand signals and every thing

Gigsy

Could always just log it and/or post your map - with the list of mods, am sure one of the mappers could take a look and give you their feedback, after all they do see a fair few maps so should be able to spot whether it's in the right ball park etc.

Shaun

The proof is not in a dyno result!

A dyno graph on it's own means jack ****! Unfortunately it's what the majority judge a map by.

However, I'm not sure anyone has to prove anything.

If toneh wants to keep learning than that's down to him. Personally, I would booking (pay) a well experienced mapper for his time and expertise, to go through my map and tell me what could be improved, how and why (assuming said mapper was happy to do that).

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

Wise words

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Eerr I said that about 4 pages ago
About power runs mean nothing
Real world driving is what counts

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Can't agree more. Dyno result print outs are just for ***** waving.

Dyno is an aid to tuning, handy to have, but its not the end all do all of tuning an engine as it can't simulate every day to day driving condition.

Gigsy

+1

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Glad to see you back answering the critics Tony!

If your happy with your work and its all running how YOU want it then happy days especially if you can save money along the way

This has been a very interesting thread to say the least! And who knows if you had not have put the title as it was, would we have even got this far and learnt what we have!

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

.......and its a rare sight for a SN thread to stay on track and not turn into utter chaos

rickya

iTrader: (18)

Oh god, Im off here for a few days and Iv got a 15 pager to get through! lol

rickya

iTrader: (18)

Thats it Im not reading past Pg1, Post 56, because thats where this thread should have ended!

"Any **** can map a car.... but it takes more than a **** to map a car effectively and efficiently!"

Scoobynet quote of the month!! lolol

Blue by You

iTrader: (23)

So if you agree, who's idea was it to post up a dyno print of your map output?

BTW they are still wise words regardless of who said them first

Infected by sti

iTrader: (6)

Agreed!! has been a rather heated and debated subject but id say a good 95% of the input has been a very good read

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

Stu if you weren't so much involved in the topic I think this Thread would have been locked by now!

"The great mapping rip off" topic subject has run off course, this was a thread started by a DIY enthusiast mapper, which in my opinion was uncalled for. The thread is no longer talking about the subject. So for that reason I'm out.

Rob

Ps maybe if the Subject heading was "DIY mapping costs" then it might have received a better reception.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

It's quite obvious rob by your comments your not my biggest fan
As you've noted I may come across as a little blunt , but had I put mapping costs it may have had very little reception
I'm sorry I say what I think and I suppose have a way with words but that's me I'm afraid , love it or hate it !

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

To be honest i doubt it took them very long at all to come up with given their expertise and experience with 300bhp rally cars, and when you see the map and how safe it is it's no wonder my wagon has 93k on it and still pulling strong.

And as for the self mappers killing engines, call me a cynic but pro mappers would say that wouldn't they, and you only need to take a look at what the yanks are doing to know it couldn't be further from the truth.

I think a shake up over here is long overdue, and the mapping gravy train is heading for the station.

Rob Day

iTrader: (78)

I'm just a firm believer that, if you can do it yourself then great, if you cannot then pay someone that can, but don't start bleating that your being ripped off.

My background is I'm a qualified Chef by trade, but have been a Manager for a large blue chip furniture company for the last 10 years. However having owned many houses and renovated three of them myself and only using skills/certs when required by the law. So in terms of Plastering, Wood work, Building, Plumbing, and Decorating etc have all been done by myself acquiring better skills and knowledge along the way. I plastered my late 4 bedroom, 2 reception rooms, 2 bathroom, 1 kitchen terrace, landing, stairs and hallways on around £700 worth of materials. I was getting quotes from £2'500 - £4'000 for the works. Ok the job would have been better by the trades men, but that doesn't mean that they would have ripped me off, they simply have had a better method than me, better equipment, faster to complete, and ultimately a more professional finish. The same pretty much goes for all the rest of the house bar the plumbing where i have gone beyond the norm to ensure there is no pipework showing and that it is 25 year proved.

The point I'm making is that yes anyone can have a go at anything, and if they succeed then great, but it takes a lot of practise, insight, time, and intuition (and sometime money) to be as good as the best. However just because you are able to do it doesn't mean that everyone else that is paying for the "service" is being ripped off.

Im Jealous that you have the time to do what you are doing, I simply dont have the time, and to be honest would sooner do what I can do for a premium (graphics maybe, which is more a hobby now) and purchase a service from another seller at a premium (mapper maybe).

Im not slating your new developed skills, in fact I praise you, its the way you headed the subject and then carried the conversation forward that you are proving that mapping is simple enough, costs little, and that other mappers are simply ripping folk off It's a luxury Service that anyone with half a brain could learn I'm sure, but like me at plastering will not ever be as good as most professionals due to a lack of time, variation, qty of sessions and ultimately reputation.

Rob

ps - Im in the Dom Rep at the moment so there is a 5 hour time lapse.

MrNoisy

iTrader: (28)

Evidently you must buy all this stuff off a different forum or dodgy(!?) eBay sellers then because I subscribe to the for sale forums on this site, and have done for the last 5 or 6 years; every day I get an email and I NEVER see prices that cheap come up "often". Maybe once a month some cheap stuff comes up and that's optimistic, but £60 for a turbo that's capable of 350bhp without modification on my car, nope!
Whilst I know you can mod a top entry turbo to front entry you can't say it's £60 done though - you have to fact in how much it costs to mod the turbo to be front entry.
It's not so cheap when you start adding all the "extras" like this in.
So in short, sorry, I cannot agree with that statement (even though I did sell you a very cheap gearknob )

I also see the comments on it's all about the way the car drives.

Now I agree with that to an extent, but one guy with a 200bhp car might think it seems fast, and go telling everyone he's running 300bhp. A few people on here will know someone who I'm referring to as the example here!
Now in that case, I'm afraid that a dyno will spell out the obvious difference as opposed to what someone thinks feels quick.

In this case, it's nothing to do with ***** waving and all about proving how the car is fuelling, what sort of torque it's making, when it makes full boost etc etc.
I don't think it's unfair to say you can tell some of that by driving but it's far easier to see it on a graph.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

But with the greatest of respect for your superior knowledge on the subject, so is the chosen route of the vast majority on here, in that WRX owners upgrade to STI spec by fitting a set of pink injectors, TD05/ VF35, STI up pipe, top mount, panel filter, 3 port and full miltek zorst, or insert some other well known brand name.

It's no different, i bet my car most decent mappers could do what they do in 30 mins using ANY base map let alone one of "their own creation" which i doubt many have done, and the car would be fine, just do as prodrive do and keep it nice and rich and bobs your mothers brother.

Then they check a few tables just to be sure it won't go bang, rest of the time they just smooze the customer/ oops the boss is here lets look busy till it's time to go get the next £300 of some other mug that believes the myth.

Now i don't claim to know anywhere near as much as some of the people on here and other forums, but i have been around long enough to be able to spot a RIP OFF, which may be a slightly harsh way of of putting it, but i still don't see anyone other than Pavlo having big enough gonads to come on here and discuss the situation.

Which is no real supprise considering the vast sums of cash they are trousering, which ultimatley Prove they are little more than the op, someone that is able to grasp what is in effect a simple concept when it comes to light well established/known quantity modifications, which i again refer you back to, is what tonys original point was.

At the end of the day everyone has to start somewhere and from what i have seen with my own eyes, tony has made a very good start.

toneh

iTrader: (1)

Well all I can say mate is your not looking hard enough because my mates just picked an 05 up for £65 and I'm a welder fabricator so front entry mods don't cost me anything
Picked mine up from t6 customs in stoke on Trent

scoobyman2012

iTrader: (1)

maybe the title was a bit harsh , but Toneh does have good point ,

I also like to do my own mapping as well , manily because had enough of paying £300 for a mobile mapper for the first remap , then £150 for a tweak when it was just for something simple like a change of air filter or differen't exhaust or intercooler ,

if you have put thousands into your car then £300-500 is not much on the scale of things + the peice of mind its been mapped by a pro,

but the majority of subaru's are just road cars and all have similare/basic mods ,
bolt on turbo upgrade , fmic , filter , injectors , decat exhaust etc... and they are being charged the same as a highly moddified car ,

scoobyman2012

iTrader: (1)

double post

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I'm sure there are many on here that would disagree with that statement.

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

How did I miss this thread! Brilliant!