The Underclass
14 August 2011, 12:31 PM
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14 August 2011, 01:14 PM
#94
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Weak as water!
Les
14 August 2011, 03:25 PM
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14 August 2011, 03:29 PM
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today...00/9560646.stm
Have a listen to this chavscum, it speaks volumes about the mentality of the kids who have grown up knowing their rights and not their responsibilities!
Have a listen to this chavscum, it speaks volumes about the mentality of the kids who have grown up knowing their rights and not their responsibilities!
14 August 2011, 04:08 PM
#98
Bring back borstals like north sea camp, or some hard labour paving the pennine way, digging drainage trenches on the north yorkshire moors, sheep farming in the outer hebrides that type of stuff not sat in a warm cell with sky tv a spliff and some hooch.
14 August 2011, 04:25 PM
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My understanding is that the army does not want them either, as most are too stupid to do anything with, so we are back to schools and the education system.
Bring back borstals like north sea camp, or some hard labour paving the pennine way, digging drainage trenches on the north yorkshire moors, sheep farming in the outer hebrides that type of stuff not sat in a warm cell with sky tv a spliff and some hooch.
Bring back borstals like north sea camp, or some hard labour paving the pennine way, digging drainage trenches on the north yorkshire moors, sheep farming in the outer hebrides that type of stuff not sat in a warm cell with sky tv a spliff and some hooch.
To conform and contribute positively to society!
14 August 2011, 10:05 PM
#100
Get it right then,you might not end up with a rioting scumbag in the future!!
15 August 2011, 10:47 AM
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15 August 2011, 12:45 PM
#103
Trouble is that they are taking in all the stuff people are saying and now feel even more hard done by, basically if they dont get what they want in terms of a job, youth schemes and benefits they feel justified in rioting and looting, like entertaining a petulant toddler.
They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their **** and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.
In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.
They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be ******** by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.
They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their **** and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.
In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.
They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be ******** by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.
15 August 2011, 01:22 PM
#104
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Our society makes a cult of youth though J4CKO. Adverts target teens and young adults with consumer goods fashion etc, media specifically caters to youth at times. Youth are encouraged to seek pleasure and determine their own path - a cult of 'choice'. You have kids saying they are 'consumers' to the schools 'service provider'....it's a power relationships between maturity and immaturity reversed. Youth is not told what to do and want, it is indulged and asked what it should do and want! To be old is to be useless and worn out, good for nothing except to buy 'over 50's life insurance' from Michael Parkinson
To be old is to be irrelevant.
So immaturity is in the driving seat....it's not working too well!
To be old is to be irrelevant.So immaturity is in the driving seat....it's not working too well!
Last edited by tony de wonderful; 15 August 2011 at 01:23 PM.
15 August 2011, 09:41 PM
#105
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Trouble is that they are taking in all the stuff people are saying and now feel even more hard done by, basically if they dont get what they want in terms of a job, youth schemes and benefits they feel justified in rioting and looting, like entertaining a petulant toddler.
They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their **** and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.
In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.
They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be ******** by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.
They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their **** and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.
In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.
They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be ******** by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.
What the kids of today are missing... imagination!!!!
mb
16 August 2011, 12:09 PM
#106
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Trouble is that they are taking in all the stuff people are saying and now feel even more hard done by, basically if they dont get what they want in terms of a job, youth schemes and benefits they feel justified in rioting and looting, like entertaining a petulant toddler.
They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their **** and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.
In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.
They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be ******** by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.
They all cite nothing to do as being the reason for their behaviour, we live in a world nowadays where it is hard to be bored,there is more now than ever before, information about anythign at your fingertips but they dont want to learn, its all about filling their faces, shooting their load, showing off, getting off their **** and getting things for free, i.e. the shortcuts to wealth and respect with all the instant gratification it brings.
In the eighties we had computer games but they were crap, inthe holidays we used to go to the swimming baths and were there for hours, go for bike rides, make airfix models, read books and comics, do Lego, go to the park with some sweets and sit on the swings, go to the river for a swim, go off road on the bikes and do jumps, do our paper rounds, played hide and seek en masse, watch videos, get ready for bonfire night. All seems a bit pathetic, innocent and lame but it was fun.
They dont get a childhood now, by the time they are 12 its not cool to play Lego when your mates are out running drugs, all of them seem to be ******** by the time they are 14, there are reasons why some things you have to wait for, we live 80 plus years, there isnt any real rush to grow up.
Nothing was expected as a matter of course and if there was something you wanted you had to work for and save for it. That way you also realised the worth of what you had achieved and you looked after your possessions carefully too.
Les
16 August 2011, 12:11 PM
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Our society makes a cult of youth though J4CKO. Adverts target teens and young adults with consumer goods fashion etc, media specifically caters to youth at times. Youth are encouraged to seek pleasure and determine their own path - a cult of 'choice'. You have kids saying they are 'consumers' to the schools 'service provider'....it's a power relationships between maturity and immaturity reversed. Youth is not told what to do and want, it is indulged and asked what it should do and want! To be old is to be useless and worn out, good for nothing except to buy 'over 50's life insurance' from Michael Parkinson To be old is to be irrelevant.
So immaturity is in the driving seat....it's not working too well!
To be old is to be irrelevant.So immaturity is in the driving seat....it's not working too well!
Les
16 August 2011, 01:33 PM
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We'll hear more stuff about how we should 'ask the youth what it wants' and what 20 y/o youth workers have to say. We'll have debates on TV with 15 y/o's telling us what they need. We'll hear how 'the Politicians are out of touch with the youth'.
It's bonkers.
The youth have been liberated from 'oppression' by the older generation authority figures since the 1960's and this is where it has got us.
It's bonkers.
The youth have been liberated from 'oppression' by the older generation authority figures since the 1960's and this is where it has got us.
16 August 2011, 02:32 PM
#109
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Funnily enough I said that the other day.
When I was the same age as these ferals causing all of this mayhem I had no youth clubs to go to either. Nor did we have leisure centres , daytime TV, computers , smartphones . PC games etc etc. No we really did'nt. What we did have in abundance was imagination. We made go-karts from old wood and pram wheels, we played football and rugby in the winter , cricket in the summer. We made rope swings in trees that had treehouses that we had built with a bit of help from Dad. Every summer hols we did bob a job where householders paid us to do little jobs they did not want to do themselves.
Our "gang" was never once cheeky to a copper, nor did we wreck and burn cars, houses and loot shops for the sheer hell of it. We respected our elders and helped them when faced with difficulty.
So just where did it all go wrong?
Chip
When I was the same age as these ferals causing all of this mayhem I had no youth clubs to go to either. Nor did we have leisure centres , daytime TV, computers , smartphones . PC games etc etc. No we really did'nt. What we did have in abundance was imagination. We made go-karts from old wood and pram wheels, we played football and rugby in the winter , cricket in the summer. We made rope swings in trees that had treehouses that we had built with a bit of help from Dad. Every summer hols we did bob a job where householders paid us to do little jobs they did not want to do themselves.
Our "gang" was never once cheeky to a copper, nor did we wreck and burn cars, houses and loot shops for the sheer hell of it. We respected our elders and helped them when faced with difficulty.
So just where did it all go wrong?
Chip
16 August 2011, 05:43 PM
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We'll hear more stuff about how we should 'ask the youth what it wants' and what 20 y/o youth workers have to say. We'll have debates on TV with 15 y/o's telling us what they need. We'll hear how 'the Politicians are out of touch with the youth'.
It's bonkers.
The youth have been liberated from 'oppression' by the older generation authority figures since the 1960's and this is where it has got us.
It's bonkers.
The youth have been liberated from 'oppression' by the older generation authority figures since the 1960's and this is where it has got us.
Les
17 August 2011, 04:29 PM
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Funnily enough I said that the other day.
When I was the same age as these ferals causing all of this mayhem I had no youth clubs to go to either. Nor did we have leisure centres , daytime TV, computers , smartphones . PC games etc etc. No we really did'nt. What we did have in abundance was imagination. We made go-karts from old wood and pram wheels, we played football and rugby in the winter , cricket in the summer. We made rope swings in trees that had treehouses that we had built with a bit of help from Dad. Every summer hols we did bob a job where householders paid us to do little jobs they did not want to do themselves.
Our "gang" was never once cheeky to a copper, nor did we wreck and burn cars, houses and loot shops for the sheer hell of it. We respected our elders and helped them when faced with difficulty.
So just where did it all go wrong?
Chip
When I was the same age as these ferals causing all of this mayhem I had no youth clubs to go to either. Nor did we have leisure centres , daytime TV, computers , smartphones . PC games etc etc. No we really did'nt. What we did have in abundance was imagination. We made go-karts from old wood and pram wheels, we played football and rugby in the winter , cricket in the summer. We made rope swings in trees that had treehouses that we had built with a bit of help from Dad. Every summer hols we did bob a job where householders paid us to do little jobs they did not want to do themselves.
Our "gang" was never once cheeky to a copper, nor did we wreck and burn cars, houses and loot shops for the sheer hell of it. We respected our elders and helped them when faced with difficulty.
So just where did it all go wrong?
Chip
I think there is far too much of this bowing down to children's wishes these days. It makes them feel that they are too important and no one should be in a position to tell them what they should do.
That is no way to teach the need for discipline and society cannot exist without that.
It is quite ridiculous to run a school as is requested by the children just to kow tow to their imagined requirements.
No wonder that they have so little respect for their teachers or anyone else in authority. Children should learn that they are required at that stage of their lives to do what they are told by their superiors until they are mature enough to understand the needs of a strong society.
They should also be taught to think for themselves of course and to be able to accept guidance when they might need it.
Teachers must have the right to correct and discipline children when required and parents should agree with that arrangement too. if corporal punishment is the only way...than so be it!
Les
17 August 2011, 05:10 PM
#112
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I think I read somewhere about an African saying along these lines:
"If the village does not initiate the youths then the youths will come and burn down the village"
In a primitive society young men will make the transition from childhood to adulthood via an archetypal event - the initiation. It is often a trial of endurance, strength, discipline, like circumcision, or hunting something, or getting painful tatoos. It's at the pleasure of the those with power (the patriarchy) but it goes both ways because the initiates are then offered 'positions' in the tribe such as warrior etc. Jung writes a lot about the initiation as an important psychological event, it also has an economic importance too - the young men now have a 'position' a 'role', they have some prestige through what they do. The tribe isn't just some messy accretion of individuals, it has structure, elites, roles etc.
Now think about that anthropological truth, and you can see our society is a bit of a mess. A lot of young men seem to live in a vacuum where there are no authority figures who can offer said initiation into a 'position', or where the authority figures (men) have been emasculated by welfare or lefty ideology etc.
In that vacuum I think the culture of gangs can grow and the 'black gang' culture seems especially vital. It offers initiation and positions, impoverished as they may be but they are better than nothing.
It's a bit like The Lord of the Flies where in the absence of adults (authority) the kids have total freedom but are too immature to organise themselves in a constructive way....they just become feral essentially.
So the left are wrong when they say that simply 'jobs', being 'nice' to the hoodies, more welfare etc is the answer.
'Jobs' is not the same as 'positions'. In our society now the menial jobs are treated with no respect, you are a nobody, but in other societies and times even menial jobs had their position in the world, could have pride taken in them. Christendom did this and same too with oriental cultures.
Being 'nice' to hoodies spoils them, they need tough love. The primitive initiation is not easy, you can fail it.
Welfare offers a dismal 'position' of dependence.
The right are wrong when they stress individual responsibilities, since for children and young adults they are too immature for this. In the primitive tribe the childrens initiation and upbringing is ordered by the adult authority figures.
So in the absence of authority and initiation these young kids and adults have become monsters like the Lord of the Flies kids. I'm sure many of these young rioters are alpha males and in a primitive society would be its warriors etc.
Maybe our modern society and economy has no use for them?
"If the village does not initiate the youths then the youths will come and burn down the village"
In a primitive society young men will make the transition from childhood to adulthood via an archetypal event - the initiation. It is often a trial of endurance, strength, discipline, like circumcision, or hunting something, or getting painful tatoos. It's at the pleasure of the those with power (the patriarchy) but it goes both ways because the initiates are then offered 'positions' in the tribe such as warrior etc. Jung writes a lot about the initiation as an important psychological event, it also has an economic importance too - the young men now have a 'position' a 'role', they have some prestige through what they do. The tribe isn't just some messy accretion of individuals, it has structure, elites, roles etc.
Now think about that anthropological truth, and you can see our society is a bit of a mess. A lot of young men seem to live in a vacuum where there are no authority figures who can offer said initiation into a 'position', or where the authority figures (men) have been emasculated by welfare or lefty ideology etc.
In that vacuum I think the culture of gangs can grow and the 'black gang' culture seems especially vital. It offers initiation and positions, impoverished as they may be but they are better than nothing.
It's a bit like The Lord of the Flies where in the absence of adults (authority) the kids have total freedom but are too immature to organise themselves in a constructive way....they just become feral essentially.
So the left are wrong when they say that simply 'jobs', being 'nice' to the hoodies, more welfare etc is the answer.
'Jobs' is not the same as 'positions'. In our society now the menial jobs are treated with no respect, you are a nobody, but in other societies and times even menial jobs had their position in the world, could have pride taken in them. Christendom did this and same too with oriental cultures.
Being 'nice' to hoodies spoils them, they need tough love. The primitive initiation is not easy, you can fail it.
Welfare offers a dismal 'position' of dependence.
The right are wrong when they stress individual responsibilities, since for children and young adults they are too immature for this. In the primitive tribe the childrens initiation and upbringing is ordered by the adult authority figures.
So in the absence of authority and initiation these young kids and adults have become monsters like the Lord of the Flies kids. I'm sure many of these young rioters are alpha males and in a primitive society would be its warriors etc.
Maybe our modern society and economy has no use for them?
Great post! Hit's the nail on the head.
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