LMC

Edit i seen his quote but he still has a point traction would be the defining factor in the outcome.
Oh and for the other comment isnt it obvious what were discussing, a front wheel drive vec with 300bhp getting its power down to contend with a 4 wheel drive sti.

adam6900

iTrader: (4)

Take say a 95 classic for arguments sake 400 bhp and 500lb and a 2008 Vectra 400bhp and 500lb in the dry

up to 100mph the vectra being fwd could never put the power down and the scooby would be well infront, why is this so hard to understand? give them a 20mph rolling start and the same again

The ONLY time when the vectra will be faster is when it has full traction and that wont be until 4th upwards

In any point to point situation appart from a 1/2 mile upwards straight bit of road the 4x4 will be better with that sort of power

Understand?

STI Mav

WTF - You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about do you. Have you ever driven a mapped Vectra VXR, have you ever been in one - judging by your comments I'm guessing the answer to both of those is categorically no.

Traction in 3rd gear in a straight line is absolutely no issue in mine what so ever, as I've already said 1st and 2nd light up the TCS as you would expect, but 3rd is fine.

You most defiantly need to get your facts straight before posting.

BTW - 400bhp in a Vectra VXR is particuarly difficult and expensive - they dont tune as easly as Scoobys. 300bhp is very much do-able and workable, but 400bhp even I think is OTT in a FWD car.

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

A standard Vectra vxr against a standard Hawkeye sti there is half a second in it! and the vectra is almost 100kg heavier.

You see a classic is 370kg lighter, understand?

My point is that to get a fair comparison is to compare like for like which you simply not doing, i've never said once that the vectra is faster than an sti only that your way off the mark in regards to how easily you think you would waste one!

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

lol made me laugh, you dont seem to have much of (if any) idea about cars, yes 4wd gets you off the line quicker, doesnt make it faster overall.
Modern electronics do a hell of alot to keep fwd cars in check (even rwd cars), and lsd's are great then you say THE funniest thing about an evo being better than a scoob back in the late 90's i would have agreed with you, but that was over 10 years ago and scoobs (JDM ones, those are the proper versions ) are better than anything mitsubishi throw out in the lancer range

Tony

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Cobblers, let's see some proof!

TX.

STI Mav

To be honest without the remap the Vectra is pants. The Bluefin or Stage 1 remap adds around 30bhp and over 100lbs/ft Torque - hence the reason the Stage 1 VXR's are compared to the STI's with PPP. Without the remap it would struggle to keep pace with an STI even in a straight line.

Aaron1978

iTrader: (12)

Yeah i thought that would be the case mate, but my times are for a standard Vectra vxr v's Sti my06 (non ppp) as the bhp is exactly the same

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

First thread and i was doing the printouts
http://www.ladsoc.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=23762

Tony

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

^^ I need your username & password

TX.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Non Scoobs

KK3960 - 997 911 Turbo - 528 562
Tony - X Drive BMX X5 3.5 Diesel - 404 494
Russ - Mitsi GTO - 259 225

and the noisiest thing about the x5 was the tyres, amazingly quiet on the rolling road!

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Is it ***** waving contest now about what makes more power, ok this what my mapped Impreza did



Banny

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Well Banny I think that sort of ends the thread. That is awesome!!

tofu_man555

haha! this thread fair lost it's way tht's an awesome power graph btw, so smooth i absolutely love imprezas but all this garbage about front wheel drive being incapable of use on track and being inable to get the power down is bull. i think the 300 bhp focus rs shows wat is capable from modern front wheel drives n honda have been successfully tracking fwd's for years with alot of success. yes the vectra isn't as good as either in my opinion but if we're talking about tuning then it shows fwd with 300bhp (including the obv very underestimated vectra) can easily hold it's own doesn't mean i think imprezas are any worse, i'd never trade mine cause i feel it suits me cause i need an idiot proof car haha

bugboy

Brilliant!

mit

iTrader: (10)

so, buy a vec vxr if you want to go fast in 3rd onwards,in the dry, in a straight line, over the speed limit, but not on track with 300bhp or less. Buy a classic impreza if you want twice the power potential, twice the standing start grip/0-60, twice the cornering ability, any wet traction, on road or track etc etc. correct?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Nah
Chocolate engines chocolate gearboxes, fuel surge, will give you better grip but not ability in the corners (note grip does not = better handling) and the 0-60 starting grip (until your gearbox lets go ) and the wet traction

Subaru's were not made for doing track days (well most of them anyway, only really the new age spec ones that can do them without serious issues), so its chalk n cheese.

Tony

STI Mav

No toys in the Scooby though - Vectra is available fully loaded

tofu_man555

i'm agreein with tony here. fortunately ihaven't experienced the chocolate g box and engine failures lol. but i did however take my type r on track and have since had to rethink wat i wanna do to mine to get it properly ready for track. the brakes were **** after a few laps and the outrageous n/s outer tyre wear was a joke which then resulted in the car being a joke to put round the track. engine diff n gearbox held up great. but i now know tht i need a good amount of chassis n brakes work before i try again a track weapon the classic impreza is not

mit

iTrader: (10)

I think i've lost sight of what mine was like when standard (see my garage). Was it really that poor!?

tofu_man555

yeah mate. i mean, i am a little heavy footed, but i wouldn't call myself the novice i was wen i had my first anymore it did take a good few laps for the weaknesses to show but eventually for me i just found the chassis wasn't balanced enough and the brakes were garbage went round passenger in a hawkeye spec c n although mine put in faster lap times to start (driver or watever, he hadn't long had it) the hawkeye stood upto the abuse far longer and didnt melt the tyres like mine did

Voxer

This vid is a friend of mines Vec(mapped) running against a MK2 Focus RS (mapped), his car has a tad less power than mine and this is the outcome.

enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr1WWpSeIRg

tofu_man555

the focus rs in tht video seems to be a faster car getting a crap launch but the vec is still fast both great cars

scooby L

That RS had a shocking launch...

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

at some of the comments on the video and you're dicing with death showing a focus rs not to be the fastest thing on 4 wheels

Banny

Voxer

Oh and guys how many times did the Vec win the BTCC championship, it may not be the V6 engine they use but it's the same power coming from the n/a 2.0 and the same chassis setup.






and again I am not saying it's better, just open your blinkers and don't under estimate them.

I use to own a 55plate sti (std) and on a roll the Vec is very marginally quicker, but once mapped the gains are bigger than what you would get from simply mapping an STI, this is why it's quicker than a ppp.


The Vec is a cruiser though and is kitted out as such, far more toys more expensive comfortable seats etc, but with this there is draw backs, i.e FWD as it's cheaper and with all the kit is heavier.

The Scoob however is the opposite, less comfort and toys and more money thrown at out and out performance, I have always said the majority of the scoobs value is in the Drivetrain and the engine as it was never designed to be anything other than a point to point fun car.

both cars are chalk and cheese, built for completely different purposes so in the end it's pointless comparing.

One thing to remember though if your only mildy tuned(350bhp or below) then it's not a good idea to go up against a mapped vec on a fast A road or motorway, but in the same vain it's not a good idea for us to try it on with you guys on the b roads(unless we're mental).

Tidgy

rapmsl, this thread is cracking.

as far as the chocolate bits, personaly i think alot of deaths are driver error, over reving, missed gear, poor maintained etc etc. more of the first one me thinks (depsite what some folks will admit)

i blew my gearbox at a lowly 280ftlb, i was giving it death on the isle of man and although im not positive i bet i slightly missed a gear and crunch she went. o how i love my straight cut ppg

i think its fair to say that on uk roads the scoob is more accessable performance, better in wet and quicker b road car, so if you want ***** out speed then thats what you want.

on german roads with no speed limit the scoob is gonna get its **** handed to it so M5 is it.

not sure where the vecy vxr fits in? cos it aint got the toys, reliability or the power of the M5. (sorry flippant comment and couldn't resist)

tunability, well your having a larf with 350+ bhp on a fwd car, 500+ bhp on an awd car. slip diffs etc etc just remove power to make it get at lest some of it down. also alot of mapped fwd car's have limited power in lower gears so they don't spin up as much. be interesting to see what the bluefin map power profiles look like in all the gears.

don't be conviced the awd will put 1,000,000,000 of bhp down, once you hit 500 they become hard to drive at there potential, get near 600 and there are a handfull.

tofu_man555

definitly agree with both voxer and tidgy. they are 2 totally different cars this has ended up quite a thread though lol.really wen it comes to gettin the power down n killing the old b roads alot of its down 2 driver talent, knowing the road and how much of a death wish you hav i watched my mate blow an evo 260 away in an escort gti all because the evo driver was passing through an area he didnt know and my mate didnt care if he dinged his little escort. i've also seen plenty of really well set up cars up against lesser cars beaten by wat was simply a better driver. the list goes on with things that will decide who wins i guess.

Tidgy

just wanna add, by deaths i mean mechanical deaths, not crash's and human deaths,, lol

tofu_man555

hahaha! if over revving ur car caused actual death i thinks i'd have died ages ago