The Zohan

'Slightly' more extreme, ****-ism was much, much more extreme, if you want to compare like this then communism also offered protectionism so where do you want to stop drawing comparisons. Comparing looking after yours and you own first to being a **** is just madness and an emotive smokescreen.

I do agree with you comments on our own home grown wasters, however you like a lot of people need to realise that these are two separate problems and both need dealing with, just because we have home grown waters does not make it right if we allow others to use and in some cases abuse our systems such as the benefit system.
Two wrongs do not make a right!

Two issues both important, both need addressing. Getting the 2nd/3rd generation non workers of their asses, off benefit and into work must be a priority, having jobs, no matter what theses jobs are is also a priority, filling low paid jobs with foreign workers just because some Brits find it beneath them and can sponge enough out of the system is madness and cannot be allowed to continue. We need to offer training, compulsory in some cases and get the long term off their butts and into the workplace.

Leslie

I agree with Paul.

Les

davegtt

Actually, back before 1933 when the ***** got into power, they wasnt publicising how extreme they were. Their views were pretty much what Im reading on this thread. Its only when Germany hit a recession and the public followed the extremism that AH and his cronies because Jews were taking the jobs of Germans etc etc they started to support him that it all kicked off. They were bad for racism in the 20's, a bit like how you would descibe the BNP and small mindless bunch of thugs. Then they got alot more political, and once they got into power converted their original views back onto the public.

The Zohan

You forgot to mention that the jews had been in Germany for quite a while prior to this happening they controlled the banking, diamond trade, etc. Hitler wanted thier money/wealth and power removed from them and took it. The hatred as you call it was stirred up by evil vile men wanting to remove the jews from the face of the earth. Hardly the same is it, want to repartiate those without jobs or are you saying it is then?

More emotive bullsh*t

jonc

Vote Paul for PM!!

davegtt

???? I forgot to mention it? I didnt need to mention it because its well known. Hardly a hidden agenda on my part. I told you Hitler was stirring the trouble in the early 20's when the **** party was formed. They were what we'd call a bunch of skin heads running around (obviously not skin heads literally though).

My point is the same, as I said earlier on the first page about the comments being the same as the **** party. I still believe the hatred is there from alot fo Brits, regardless of if the immigrants are working or not. Thats always been the point Ive been making in this thread.

Lisawrx

iTrader: (1)

I must admit, I think Paul is speaking a fair bit of sense here, these are two separate issues, and two wrongs don't make a right.

However, I would say, imo, if we really tackle the benefit system, and bring it back to what it is really meant to be, we can potentially solve both problems. I don't know how big a problem immigrants claiming is, but even if we assume it's a fairly big issue, then make it less appealing for them to come for this reason. Having a blanket send them back policy seems unfair to me, as it doesn't take into account the specific circumstances of a person claiming help.

If we review the benefit system, so it goes back to being a short term stopgap for times of trouble, we put an end to our own lazy wasters using it as a way of life, and if we assume some people are motivated to come here for an easy ride, not to better their lives, that 'perk' has been removed, thus hopefully killing two birds with one stone.

The Zohan

Perhaps you should learn not to confuse hatred with other emotions such as anger or a feeling of frustration for a start. Dave you do seem to get het up easily and chucking around emotive words and expressions and comparing this to the start of Nazism in Germany. It is not the same!

Do you really think most British 'hate' immigrants - do you really?
Or is there a small minority who might do so and for what reasons that will always the the case.


The Brits are not like the Germans of the 20's/30's in may ways and TBH the Brits are hospitable and fair open minded people on the whole. The BNP will never rule/run this country, why because of the 'people'.

You seem to have a low opinion of the British public and their ability for fair play which should never be underestimated. Wanting to look after your own first is not Nazism/fascism or any sort of right wing trait or the same as shipping immigrants off to be gassed and then burnt in concentration camps - Looking after 'yours' first and the sending home those who come here to work and then no longer have employment is common sense!

BTW the ***** wanted rid the world off homosexuals, mentally ill, criminals, phylisphors, travellers (Gypo's - maybe not a bad thing) and pretty much anybody without Blonde hair and blue eyes, been much call for that on SN or in the papers - even the DM?

Waving the **** card is like playing the race card and getting just as boring and meaningless.

hodgy0_2

History certainly tells us that economic problems tend to flush out any underlying social problems

jonc

Try telling that to the Zimbabweans.

davegtt

Im not speaking for everyone Paul. Im just saying that IMO there is a high level of hatred, and yes, I do mean hatred towards foriegn people in this country. Thats my point, out of that 78% in the OP. There will be a high majority of ignorant Brits who couldnt care less if them immigrants were working or not. Thats what I believe and thats what I'll stand by because I see it day in day out. Im not saying you personally have a hatred of foriegn workers, Id be stupid to, especially when youve been happy enough to work in a foreign country yourself. You might be fustrated at non workers claiming, and thats fine. I have no issue with that. I just want you to understand my point above.

I do have a low opinion of the British public, we are very small minded on the whole. There is a large division of people who are brought up to respect others and those who are brought up and respect nothing. We see and hear about it all the times. Ive seen you contribute to threads about the state of such things like the youth of today etc.

The Zohan

Fortunately the small minded are in the minority and will remain so.
I do have a low opinion of the British public, we are very small minded on the whole. sad that you tar all with the same brush though - bit small minded of you

davegtt

on the whole does not litterally mean the whole of everyone

Martin2005

Paul, I'm not arguing with the principle of what you are saying, but I am certainly not going to agree that this is a problem of the scale you make it out to be.
As I said before it's fairly easy to blow this 'problem' out of proportion, because sadly there are elements in our society that leap upon this issue to further their own fairly undesirable political agendas.

The Zohan

OK, so we now have 2 million unemployed, i believe this does not include the disabled and no, i do not think all disabled are scroungers at all!

around 62 million population in the UK + around another 1 million illegals (another story for another time)

You say it is not the problem i make it out to be, i have not quoted figures or claimed all people on the dole are scroungers. With this in mind how can i have made it out to be anything other than needing redressing, which it does.

This government has made it easy to live off of benefits and not look for or need to work, look at the number of jobs available and also the immigrants filling non-skilled roles to see this.

Filling low paid jobs with unskilled workers from this country instead of letting them sit on their backsides claiming dole whilst immigrants come to the UK and do the same jobs is is madness and farcical. The to let the immigrants stay in the UK once the work has gone - madness!

Two problems both needing addressing before we slowly circle the bowl and disappear or there is civil unrest in this country, we cannot look after everybody.

I suppose i am now spoeaking like a dribbling drooling fasist condemming all immigrants to torture and certian deatrh at my own hands

Martin2005

I'm not sure how this government has done anything different to any other government in living memory in terms of making benefits easy, if anything they get attacked from the left and right everytime they try and crack down.


Our economy has done well out of immigration, a point you keep refusing to acknowledge.

Sure there are plenty of low skilled jobs out there being filled by immigrants, if they were filled by Brits then the immigrants wouldn't be here in the first place, so it's harly a case of immigrants stealing jobs from under the noses of the natives.

The Zohan

I am not sure the govt gets any grief about wanting to curb or control immigration other than from bleeding hearts who feel that the UK is responsible for all the ills of the world and we must pay and help out at the cost of our own people TBH.

The government are guilty of uncontrolled immigration and bolting (or attempting to) bolt the stable door well after the horse has disappeared from sight. Most complaints and stick is about their reactionary approach, proactive and NL are not words you hear together often.


Immigration as a benefit

Skilled workers filling vacancies that cannot be filled by the native workforce - brilliant, not a problem.

As i have said and keep saying unskilled workers filling job that can be done by unskilled and the high numbers of unemployed is just plain daft, how can having our own people drawing dole money and other benefits be of a benefit to the country it is a drain. Please explain if this is not the case and it is a benefit - i am all ears!

An example; having an immigrant earning say £ 250.00 per week, paying 60.00 tax and NI is great.
The having a UK unemployed person claiming job seekers £ 69.00 p/w and other housing benefits, free prescriptions, reduced rent, reduced council tax, etc benefits of a similar or higher amount per week - wheres the benefit????

The there's training, if we have a skill shortage then TRAIN people to fill it rather than recruit outside the UK.

If you are on about UK exporting it workforce OK then take all the British engineer out of their jobs around the world and watch companies and countries come unstuck. We export highly skilled labour on the whole and to jobs which cannot be filled in most cases by locals. I wonder how many countries would want rid of our exported workers or English companies pulling out as their workers are no longer required...