urban

iTrader: (1)

Drive through penalties cannot be appealed as far as understand it.

Thats a bit like say Man U Vs Chelsea and Man U winning because Chelsea scored an own goal.
Every team no matter what sport will take a victory regardless of how its earned.

Leslie

Your post is an indication that you are the one to play the race card!

The whole business is a fix and is a dreadful letdown of the administrators of the sport and their ambitions.

Les

^Qwerty^

Didn't Massa break the rules at the first corner from the start then?

cster

Your words - not mine
You seem to imply that F1 fans think F1 is a sport and not a show more akin to WWF smackdown

urban

iTrader: (1)

How?

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

"The only successful appeal in F1 history came when Ferrari's Eddie Irvine and Michael Schumacher were disqualified from first and second places over a bargeboard infringement in the 1999 Malaysian Grand Prix, but subsequently re-in stated."

Says it all doesnt it

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

And if you have any understanding of the technical regulation in F1 at the time, you would realise that there was and always had been a 5mm allowence for manufacturing irregularities. All Ferrari did was to point this out to the court and quite rightly, the appeal was upheld.

Hmm, what happened to Schumacher (in his Ferrari) at Jerez 97, Canada 98, France, 2003 etc etc.....?

Do some research before mouthing off.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

argh ferrari fan boy alert, read my post. Take a step back, and read it again. Should I translate it.

"If your not ferrari then forget about an appeal"

Of course we could mention the illegal floor at the Australian grand prix couldnt we
Schumacher mistaking demolition derby for F1

but no this thread is about the appeal

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Fine. Let's talk about the appeal. The rules, that every team signs and agrees to state that a timed or drive-through penalty cannot be apealled against.

What's the problem? Infact, why did Hamilton waste his time going when he could have been preparing for this weekends race? Their solicitors need shooting.

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

Research

"

Following the 2007 Japanese Grand Prix at Fuji, Scuderia Toro Rosso's Vitantonio Liuzzi was penalised 25 seconds for having overtaken the Spyker of Adrian Sutil under waved yellow flags in the late stages of the race. Whilst the Ferrari-powered squad was permitted to appeal the punishment - denying it at the time what was its first point of the season - McLaren was not afforded the same grace, sending Formula 1's conspiracy theorists into overdrive once more and adding further fuel to the fire for those who believe the FIA is biased towards Maranello"

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Did you see the race at Fuji last year? I'd like to see if you could have spotted the yellow flags because nobody else could! Oh hang on, sorry, I forgot. You conspirators don't like to talk about facts do you?

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Malaysia 1999 was wrong. Sorry but even as a Ferrari fan I didn't agree with that appeal being upheld. The car was out of spec and Ferrari's argument of it not being enough to make a difference just shouldn't have mattered. It was out of spec. End of.

As for the floor, it wasn't illegal, it passed scrutineering in Australia. Then the FIA ruled against it and Ferrari removed it. They never ran with it on the car when it was illegal.

Finally Schumacher and demolition derbies. You might wnat to take a look at Hamilton's moves in Monza particulalrly the horrid job he did of passing Webber. No complaints from me as it's racing, but you can't hold him up as some sort of saint and condemn Schuey in the same breath. They are cut from the same cloth, but people just can't see it yet.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Or don't want to admit to it!

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

with the demo derbies I was referring to hill in 94 (think it was 94) and also against villeneuve (97 was it?)

I dont mind aggressive driving, but barging is a diff matter, anyway its about the appeal which you are sort of keeping with

jaytc2003

iTrader: (1)

thats a good point, however my post wasnt about not seeing the yellows but merely the fact that they were allowed to appeal

cster

Am I missing something here?
I can understand a drive through penalty appeal being not permitted, as the drive through would occur before the race had ended and would thus be difficult to reverse.
This does not apply in this case as (whatever the FIA want to say) the penalty was a 25 second penalty applied after the race.
In not allowing the appeal, the FIA is having a laugh at anyone who takes this F1 show seriously.
The machination by which the penalty came about in the first place and the perverse lack of any sense of natural justice is another matter altogether.
Still, makes for an exiting run into the final races
Maybe I should watch MotoGP - they actually let them race on the track and pass and everything!

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Nowhere did I say or imply you didn't know what you were talking about, if you took something I said that way you are wrong and there isn't much I can do about that.

I explained to the readers of the thread and your good self that any team is allowed to have representation at any appeal hearing. That is fact not conjecture. It is a decision of the FIA and in actual fact is nothing to do with me so you got that right.

Er but I do know why Ferrari were there while I don't know how the court of appeal works internally as I have never been to a hearing. So I commented on what I did know about and said what I didn't know about.

Not convenient. Just don't think i can add anything to this aspect of the debate. Your quote that seemed to fuel this was thus:

All I said was I really don't know. Ferrari may be there to stir things up or for their own protection. I have no idea. What I do know is that neither Ferrari or McLaren are whiter than white and if I was either team I would be at an appeal hearing for the other just in case. As to whether they should keep quiet on the face of it it seems logical, but maybe there is more to it than that. As I said I don't kmow.

Anyway sorry you seem to think I was accusing you of not knowing what you were talking about. I wasn't. Just enjoying the gentle Ferrari vs McLaren fan banter of these F1 threads. Beats dissing Gordon brown over and over LOL

MooseRacer

Spot on, and it's that which will see him achieve great things - and annoy a lot of people on the way (just not most Brits).

spireite

Well its Bernies scalextric so he can make up his own rules

cster

By Jove, I think this man has cracked it!