New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I'm sorry but some of the accounts of the lag associated with an FMIC simply do not correspond with my experience.

I've just had an FMIC fitted to my MY99, and I've not noticed any appreciable increase in lag. I think getting the supporting mods right is essential to getting the right result and many don't state their other mods...... including me at this stage!! More soon!

Ns04

RobJenks

I too have a mY99 and after fitting a VF22 then a Hyperflow FMIC the effects of Heat soak and ambient air temperatures have been successfully controlled.Obviously here in Australia removing heat from the inducted air has major benifits in maintaining power and preventing pre ignition due to loss of air mass, I suppose in cooler climates the issue is not so critical.

pslewis

I love this, not as much as the mappers love it however

The idea that a re-map can re-define the laws of Science and Physics

Lets be clear what a map actually does - it delivers a spark at the right time after looking at all the inputs ...... it cannot do anything else!! Simply Ignition Timing .... that is all.

Andy.F

Educational data for Pete

ProECU Tools

Varboy

owned...

pslewis

Advertising link, but - OK - lets look at what a re-map does:-

Fuelling and Fuel Compensation - achieved by injector opening times, simple.

Ignition Timing and Ignition Compensation - when the spark happens, simple.

Boost Pressure - affects the Boost Solenoid, simple.

Boost Limit - Subaru provide this limit, a re-map may change it, not good for the engine.

Turbo Dynamics - I cannot find any wires going to the Turbo, maybe I am missing them? If no wires, then no affect given to the Turbo directly from the ECU.

Boost Pressure Based Speed Limiting - meaningless statement, given the boost solenoid control mentioned above.

Minimum and Maximum Wastegate Duty Cycle - recirculating valve do you mean?

Rev Limit - provided by Subaru

Air Flow Sensor Scaling - scales the Input of the MAF? Not sure why it would want to do this, unless the airflow is expected to go outside the parameters of what the standard ECU is expecting?

So, yes, the ECU controls a bit more than the spark timing ...

What is the Warranty on these re-maps? Is it time or mileage based?

Andy.F

Your statements above are 90% wrong, the tuning tools I use do not allow general access and I'm not about to type out any further explanation but if you are genuinely interested then there is some first class reading material here on tuning.

AEMPRO Software as of 03/14/2008

It does run on to 217 pages though so you may find the basic tuning manual to be more readily digestable at 52 pages

http://forum.aempower.com/downloads/AEM

As for warranty, what would you suggest ?

Say someone has a 1993 (15 years old) WRX with 4 previous owners, no service history, 130,000 miles and he has bolted on performance parts capable of increasing the output by 50% ie from 220bhp to 330bhp.
Do you think the person who configures the ECU to allow these parts to work efficiently should then issue that car with a full engine warranty for xx months ?
Perhaps if I had advised on the specification, supplied the parts, built the engine, set up a revised maintenance regime and then finally configured the ECU to suit...... then I would issue some form of warranty, as most tuners currently do.

pslewis

Reference the Warranty ..... let's assume you re-map my car:-

1 Owner

BackBox only mod

Full Service History

Surely I would expect a warranty if you were going to take my Engine outside of it's Design Envelope? If you had confidence in the safety of the work.

Maybe 6 months/7500 miles would be reasonable in my case?

You see, I have a problem with people being encouraged to pay a lot of money for re-maps when the result is a less reliable car .... in the worst case the Engine is destroyed by operating outside of its Design Limits.

If you re-map that car you mention above (a 15 year old WRX with 4 previous owners, no service history, 130,000 miles and bolted on performance parts capable of increasing the output by 50% ie from 220bhp to 330bhp) then I would be very concerned - as you clearly know that it shouldn't be re-mapped ...... it is simply asking for trouble, hence your understandable reluctance to offer a warranty in that instance. But to take money for re-mapping a car like that would mean that who did would need to re-name themselves Dick Turpin!!

Andy.F

No more so than the supplier of the exhaust, induction, intercooler, ECU, injectors, turbo etc etc.

Are you saying the whole aftermarket tuning business is corrupt for supplying parts or services which will operate the engine at anything other than factory spec

Wow, it appears that you have uncovered a massive multi national scandal going on right here under our noses, you should write to the newspapers

ps - before MI5 get involved you'd better be squeeky clean and get that back box of yours off pronto.

pslewis

You avoided the answer to my question, "What Warranty Would I Get On My Car?" ....... I will take the wriggling to mean that no warranty is given, or implied.

Please be clear, I am not having a 'pop' at you - you are well respected here and I don't know you well enough to question you, your work or your beliefs ... what I can do is openly discuss my opinions about mods, including re-maps.

Of course I am not aying that the aftermarket in spare parts is corrupt, what I am questioning is the wisdom of fitting such non-standard parts. Now if someone wants to modify their car that is their choice ..... what they are sometimes unaware of is how that results in an unreliable, uneconomic, car - which also has it's value knocked for six ........ it's a double-whammy, pay £££££££ for mods - lose £££££££ come resale time.

Isn't 215BHP enough on our streets anyway? All the 300BHP cars do is arrive at the back of the next queue 2 seconds before I do ............. is that worth the exchange for £££££££££'s and an unreliable car to boot? I really doubt it.

Now, if we are talking about racing/rallying/tracking cars - then yes, modify away, it is expected to have to rebuild the engine every race ......... but, come on, for your average boy racer in the streets of the UK 215BHP is pretty much all that is needed if the driver is capable of driving.

Just my opinion and in no way an attack on anyone - just an opinion on the wisdom of modifying ......... room for that on here I would imagine?

"Taylor"

iTrader: (2)

Yes but thats all it is...an opinion. Other people also have the right to an opinion. We gather that you don't rate modifying a car, but hey heres a shock for you Mr Lewis, other people do. Not everyone who modifies an engine is a boy racer, some people on here do a bit of track time or want to. Some people have had their car a while and just want a little more from it. Reliability is only going to be an issue if you push the engine to the limits. You can tune an engine for more power without going to the limits. My classic is my everyday workhorse and happily runs around with 300bhp without losing reliability or drivability. When a car comes from the factory the map is very conservative so it runs happily with every engine, but each engine as we know has strengths and weaknesses hence a custom remap lets you get the best out of YOUR engine.

Graz

Bored today Pete?

Henrik

iTrader: (5)

I think quite a few of us have modifying cars as a hobby. At least to my wife and I it doesn't *really* matter if the Subaru ends up less reliable than standard as we have other means of transport.

I personally enjoy doing mechanical work to the car (not extremely competent by any means) as a past time. I wont be doing any mapping soon, however, as the setup costs are quite high (you need at least a data cable, wideband lambda, accurate boost gauge, det cans etc etc which all adds up) and if I'd mess it up it would cost a whole lot more. This isn't to say I wouldn't *want* to do it - I just can't at present due to my own limitation and the lack of equipment.

I know you don't like modified subaru's, but we're all different I enjoy tinkering with the car just to see what happens to it. It's sort of engineering (although "real" engineers will sneer at this), or at least as close to real engineering as I'm likely to get.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

tut tut Pete...always thought you would keep it standard...

and now its not even road legal?

pslewis

That statement would have been true in 1960 and 1970 ....... Engines, these days, are remarkably identical - tolerances and quality control has ensured that.

So, anyone who tells you that each Engine is unique, with it's own personality is either misguided or have one hand on your wallet

GC8

Youd expect so wouldnt you? Not so though: three different New Age STIs will all deliver different results with similar, or without any, modifications, when their map is optimised...

Simon

GC8

Oh! The irony Pierre! You re-define the laws of physics with every quasi-tehnical post!!!

Simon

renno rannes

IMO once the car is mapped for the front mount the massive lag issue seems a bit of a myth to me, or if not a myth hugely exaggerated ??? I went front mount years ago and wouldent go back to the TMIC. For the classic Impreza the Hybrid tube + fin seems good but if I was putting one on a newage id go Perrin , APS, or Hyperflow I reckon.

In saying that im not a mapper.

Renno

"Taylor"

iTrader: (2)

Exactly! This is prooven time and time again on rolling roads.

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

Personally I'd only go for a front mount with a reversed inlet manifold. The amount of piping on some FMICs scare me :|

Ginge !

iTrader: (1)

must admit theres WAY too much piping in them kits,,,,, lord knows why

renno rannes

I have mine reversed and for the hassle of doing it im not sure its worth it.

Renno