To FMIC or to not FMIC
 

Im thinking about going FMIC later on this year so i have some important questions to ask.


1. What brand/make do i go for?
2. What BHP gains or losses will it make?
3. Are there any common problems with these kits?
4. Costs involved?

Please see my profile for what my car is running at and with at the moment

Any advice as always is greatly appreciated

Mark

1. Depending on how much you want to spend - £349 will buy you a high quality Hybrid kit including a Cold Air Kit

2. Will depend on other mods. I would expect to get better results than a TMIC, particularly on a RR as you won't have heatsoak issues and will have a cooler charge temp.

3. None that I know of. Just the old TMIC vs FMIC might be worth looking into if you are unsure you want to change.

4. £349 for the FMIC kit and CAK plus the cost of an air filter and d/v arrangement. And of course your time to fit.

Hybrid FMIC Kits - Subaru Impreza - best prices :thumb:

APS 525/725 or Hyperflow Monster.

The best you can get. You'll be lOOking at £1k though.

Hhhmmmm thanks Gaz might have to have a rethink me thinks and possibly go the route you are :)

Little use below 400 bhp, but mine feels stronger when the hot weather is around for two or three days (last year !), used to loose power badly after 20 minutes or so... not now (Hyperflow monster)

Looks really nice, shame the polished end-tanks are hidden tho'.

DunxC

Let's re-iterate this point.. ;)

Its not appropriate to say 400 for all scoobies! :) Whilst that figure may be obtainable for a new age Sti TMIC intercooler, it would certainly NOT be on a classic intercooler, which would max out at around 330bhp.

Just had one fitted to my classic, more on this soon, lets just say I won't be going back to a TMIC though! ;) :D

Ns04

The guys building a new-age, so not really relevant to this thread !

Not meant to sound arsy but thanks anyway....

DunxC

Opps missed that bit!!! ;)

The extra trunking has the effect of warming the air - Top Mounts are there because of the very short route the 'cooled' intake air needs to travel.

It is a trade-off.

Therefore, I agree that a FMIC is pointless until the power outputs become much greater than most of us will ever see ....

Top mounted intercoolers are there because they are cheap and easy. The trunking does not warm the air Pierre!

Yeah, ok then :lol1:

Let's put that to the test, should we??

Everyone grab a footpump, hold the rubber pipe and pump the air into a tyre, the rubber pipe warms up doesn't it??

The very same happens in your long trunking from the front of the car to the inlet manifold ......... simple engineering principles, I'm surprised that you struggle with the concept?

Go to the back of the class and stand in the corner Pierre!

I like that lOOk, that just the fins are visible. Discreet.

I thought this was due to the air getting compressed in the pipe by the footpump, not due to the pipe itself? Same as what happens in a turbo charger, air gets compressed, gets hot, goes through intercooler and gets cooled down again. Basic physics I think!

I can see how the extra piping could have an additional heating effect due to the friction of the air travelling through it but generally the pipework is of quite a large bore, smooth on the inside, and the number of bends kept to a minimum to keep the friction low. I would therefore say this heating effect would be negligible compared to the initial heat generated by compressing the air?

It could also get heated up if the pipework is situated near any hot bits of the engine bay but again this can be kept low by routing it away from the hot bits and insulating it with heat wrap anywhere it does go close to hot things! So again negligible given a sensible installation.

The extra cooling power of a front mount would easily overcome any extra heating of the air due to the pipework and still give additional cooling performance over and above a top mount would it not?

Discuss :D

It has nothing to do with pipe length at all. Pierre was busy commissioning a nuclear warhead and typing with his nose, so he couldnt give this post his full attention, hence: talking bollocks...

;)

I know that but I'm surprised that an alleged nuclear engineer doesn't have a grasp of this basic concept ;)

Bit scary that he may be playing with things as dangerous as nuclear warheads. Perhaps someone should alert AWE as to his incompetence :D

Yeah, OK then, don't you just love hobbyists? :lol1: ;) :D

I'm confused now lol

Im not so sure... A front mounted intercooler has a massively increased cooling area when compared even to a late New Age STI top mounted intercooler. Just because you require a front mounted larger device to reliably cool a larger charge; it doesnt mean that you dont benefit even when you have a standard output. The cooler the incoming charge the better, after all.....

Simon

But you do have the increased pressurisation lag which can easily offset any potential for power gains. It is not uncommon for a car to be slower through the gears after fitting a fmic, even though it may show more power on the dyno.
Depends what your priority is ;) FWIW I see more tuned cars than most and I still have a TMIC on my 450+bhp spec C, in fact I still have a TMIC on my race car too and its somewhere around twice that bhp !

The only model I would put a fmic on under 400bhp would be the 92-96 cars as there is no space to fit decent TMIC

Andy

yuk, who would want all those long turbo pipes and all that turbo lag??

reverse inlet and front mount from tracktive around a grand problem solved this is what i am doing once i got the spare cash

Thats good enough for me not going that route now :)


Thanks Andy :notworthy :notworthy

You're welcome ;) :D

Thanks Andy.:notworthy :notworthy

Now I don't have to order issue 2007 January Japanese Performance. TMC vs FMC.

I still disagree in hot weather my car dropped power severely !
Now it may be slightly laggy at low revs, but once wound up it's o.k.

Still going for a turbo swap tho'.

Then I'll need it !

DunxC

P.S. PSL the air is heated as it's compressed, so all the extra pipe work radiates heat to it's surroundings like the radiators in your house.... helping to lwer the actual charge temperature further.

Same with me. A (very) spirited drive in hot weather last year caused my car to back off considerably. Went through a good bit of water on the IC spray as well. FMIC does have its disadvantages no doubt, but surely a good mapper can overcome a lot of the lag introduced?

Agree totally with AndyF. Switched back to a TMIC after trying out a FMIC. Result was much crisper throttle response and elimination of lag between gear changes, Maybe a few ponies less, but faster through the gears on the road and on the move. Now running 420bhp through a TMIC and it rocks. I should have listened to Andy first time around :)

I'm switching back to STI TMIC also :)

Hoping for less lag and more importantly standard crash protection