To FMIC or to not FMIC
17 March 2008, 10:46 AM
#1
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To FMIC or to not FMIC
Im thinking about going FMIC later on this year so i have some important questions to ask.
1. What brand/make do i go for?
2. What BHP gains or losses will it make?
3. Are there any common problems with these kits?
4. Costs involved?
Please see my profile for what my car is running at and with at the moment
Any advice as always is greatly appreciated
Mark
1. What brand/make do i go for?
2. What BHP gains or losses will it make?
3. Are there any common problems with these kits?
4. Costs involved?
Please see my profile for what my car is running at and with at the moment
Any advice as always is greatly appreciated
Mark
17 March 2008, 01:09 PM
#2
1. Depending on how much you want to spend - £349 will buy you a high quality Hybrid kit including a Cold Air Kit
2. Will depend on other mods. I would expect to get better results than a TMIC, particularly on a RR as you won't have heatsoak issues and will have a cooler charge temp.
3. None that I know of. Just the old TMIC vs FMIC might be worth looking into if you are unsure you want to change.
4. £349 for the FMIC kit and CAK plus the cost of an air filter and d/v arrangement. And of course your time to fit.
Hybrid FMIC Kits - Subaru Impreza - best prices
2. Will depend on other mods. I would expect to get better results than a TMIC, particularly on a RR as you won't have heatsoak issues and will have a cooler charge temp.
3. None that I know of. Just the old TMIC vs FMIC might be worth looking into if you are unsure you want to change.
4. £349 for the FMIC kit and CAK plus the cost of an air filter and d/v arrangement. And of course your time to fit.
Hybrid FMIC Kits - Subaru Impreza - best prices
17 March 2008, 11:11 PM
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Little use below 400 bhp, but mine feels stronger when the hot weather is around for two or three days (last year !), used to loose power badly after 20 minutes or so... not now (Hyperflow monster)
Looks really nice, shame the polished end-tanks are hidden tho'.
DunxC
Looks really nice, shame the polished end-tanks are hidden tho'.
DunxC
18 March 2008, 10:50 AM
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Its not appropriate to say 400 for all scoobies! 
Whilst that figure may be obtainable for a new age Sti TMIC intercooler, it would certainly NOT be on a classic intercooler, which would max out at around 330bhp.
Just had one fitted to my classic, more on this soon, lets just say I won't be going back to a TMIC though!
Ns04
Whilst that figure may be obtainable for a new age Sti TMIC intercooler, it would certainly NOT be on a classic intercooler, which would max out at around 330bhp.Just had one fitted to my classic, more on this soon, lets just say I won't be going back to a TMIC though!
Ns04
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18 March 2008, 10:53 AM
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The guys building a new-age, so not really relevant to this thread !
Not meant to sound arsy but thanks anyway....
DunxC
Not meant to sound arsy but thanks anyway....
DunxC
18 March 2008, 11:14 AM
#10
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The extra trunking has the effect of warming the air - Top Mounts are there because of the very short route the 'cooled' intake air needs to travel.
It is a trade-off.
Therefore, I agree that a FMIC is pointless until the power outputs become much greater than most of us will ever see ....
It is a trade-off.
Therefore, I agree that a FMIC is pointless until the power outputs become much greater than most of us will ever see ....
18 March 2008, 11:45 AM
#12
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Let's put that to the test, should we??
Everyone grab a footpump, hold the rubber pipe and pump the air into a tyre, the rubber pipe warms up doesn't it??
The very same happens in your long trunking from the front of the car to the inlet manifold ......... simple engineering principles, I'm surprised that you struggle with the concept?
18 March 2008, 12:41 PM
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18 March 2008, 01:54 PM
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Yeah, ok then
Let's put that to the test, should we??
Everyone grab a footpump, hold the rubber pipe and pump the air into a tyre, the rubber pipe warms up doesn't it??
The very same happens in your long trunking from the front of the car to the inlet manifold ......... simple engineering principles, I'm surprised that you struggle with the concept?
Let's put that to the test, should we??
Everyone grab a footpump, hold the rubber pipe and pump the air into a tyre, the rubber pipe warms up doesn't it??
The very same happens in your long trunking from the front of the car to the inlet manifold ......... simple engineering principles, I'm surprised that you struggle with the concept?
I can see how the extra piping could have an additional heating effect due to the friction of the air travelling through it but generally the pipework is of quite a large bore, smooth on the inside, and the number of bends kept to a minimum to keep the friction low. I would therefore say this heating effect would be negligible compared to the initial heat generated by compressing the air?
It could also get heated up if the pipework is situated near any hot bits of the engine bay but again this can be kept low by routing it away from the hot bits and insulating it with heat wrap anywhere it does go close to hot things! So again negligible given a sensible installation.
The extra cooling power of a front mount would easily overcome any extra heating of the air due to the pipework and still give additional cooling performance over and above a top mount would it not?
Discuss
18 March 2008, 02:52 PM
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It has nothing to do with pipe length at all. Pierre was busy commissioning a nuclear warhead and typing with his nose, so he couldnt give this post his full attention, hence: talking bollocks...
18 March 2008, 03:28 PM
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Bit scary that he may be playing with things as dangerous as nuclear warheads. Perhaps someone should alert AWE as to his incompetence
18 March 2008, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by dunx
....Little use below 400 bhp.....
DunxC
DunxC
Simon
18 March 2008, 10:04 PM
#21
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But you do have the increased pressurisation lag which can easily offset any potential for power gains. It is not uncommon for a car to be slower through the gears after fitting a fmic, even though it may show more power on the dyno.
Depends what your priority is FWIW I see more tuned cars than most and I still have a TMIC on my 450+bhp spec C, in fact I still have a TMIC on my race car too and its somewhere around twice that bhp !
The only model I would put a fmic on under 400bhp would be the 92-96 cars as there is no space to fit decent TMIC
Andy
Depends what your priority is
FWIW I see more tuned cars than most and I still have a TMIC on my 450+bhp spec C, in fact I still have a TMIC on my race car too and its somewhere around twice that bhp !The only model I would put a fmic on under 400bhp would be the 92-96 cars as there is no space to fit decent TMIC
Andy
18 March 2008, 10:17 PM
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But you do have the increased pressurisation lag which can easily offset any potential for power gains. It is not uncommon for a car to be slower through the gears after fitting a fmic, even though it may show more power on the dyno.
Depends what your priority is FWIW I see more tuned cars than most and I still have a TMIC on my 450+bhp spec C, in fact I still have a TMIC on my race car too and its somewhere around twice that bhp !
The only model I would put a fmic on under 400bhp would be the 92-96 cars as there is no space to fit decent TMIC
Andy
Depends what your priority is
FWIW I see more tuned cars than most and I still have a TMIC on my 450+bhp spec C, in fact I still have a TMIC on my race car too and its somewhere around twice that bhp !The only model I would put a fmic on under 400bhp would be the 92-96 cars as there is no space to fit decent TMIC
Andy
Thats good enough for me not going that route now
Thanks Andy
18 March 2008, 11:59 PM
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I still disagree in hot weather my car dropped power severely !
Now it may be slightly laggy at low revs, but once wound up it's o.k.
Still going for a turbo swap tho'.
Then I'll need it !
DunxC
P.S. PSL the air is heated as it's compressed, so all the extra pipe work radiates heat to it's surroundings like the radiators in your house.... helping to lwer the actual charge temperature further.
Now it may be slightly laggy at low revs, but once wound up it's o.k.
Still going for a turbo swap tho'.
Then I'll need it !
DunxC
P.S. PSL the air is heated as it's compressed, so all the extra pipe work radiates heat to it's surroundings like the radiators in your house.... helping to lwer the actual charge temperature further.
Last edited by dunx; 19 March 2008 at 12:01 AM.
19 March 2008, 12:42 AM
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Same with me. A (very) spirited drive in hot weather last year caused my car to back off considerably. Went through a good bit of water on the IC spray as well. FMIC does have its disadvantages no doubt, but surely a good mapper can overcome a lot of the lag introduced?
19 March 2008, 12:55 AM
#29
Agree totally with AndyF. Switched back to a TMIC after trying out a FMIC. Result was much crisper throttle response and elimination of lag between gear changes, Maybe a few ponies less, but faster through the gears on the road and on the move. Now running 420bhp through a TMIC and it rocks. I should have listened to Andy first time around
19 March 2008, 01:00 AM
#30
Agree totally with AndyF. Switched back to a TMIC after trying out a FMIC. Result was much crisper throttle response and elimination of lag between gear changes, Maybe a few ponies less, but faster through the gears on the road and on the move. Now running 420bhp through a TMIC and it rocks. I should have listened to Andy first time around
Hoping for less lag and more importantly standard crash protection