Floyd’s ‘economy’ Stage III
30 May 2005, 07:40 AM
#241
Can someone tell me:
The torque curve drops off after about 5800. Any ideas and thoughts as to why that may be?
My engine is at the 'next stage up' from Floyds (20g etc) and falls off in the same spot onwads, ie 1.4 bar @ 5500/6000 to 1.2 at 7500. You can feel that too on the road.
Any ideas why?
Graham.
The torque curve drops off after about 5800. Any ideas and thoughts as to why that may be?
My engine is at the 'next stage up' from Floyds (20g etc) and falls off in the same spot onwads, ie 1.4 bar @ 5500/6000 to 1.2 at 7500. You can feel that too on the road.
Any ideas why?
Graham.
30 May 2005, 09:24 AM
#242
The ecu will interpolate the boost drop from 1.4 to 1.2 bar and do it gently, so if for example your boost profile is set in say 500 rpm increments and at 6000 rpm you have 1.4 bar and at 6500 you have 1.2 bar it will probably be starting to tail the boost off before 6000 rpm, which would be in line with your torque droping off
30 May 2005, 03:50 PM
#243
OK, so how to get the '1.4' to stay up there over another 1000 rpm!
Andy F couldn't get it stay during mapping though the engine had the sports cat on then (3'' D/P) which we thought was the cat impeeding flow at high rpm/flow.
The car seems to be the same with the decat 3'' also.
It was in this decat state the car ran the 407 bhp at Well Lane.
Graham.
Andy F couldn't get it stay during mapping though the engine had the sports cat on then (3'' D/P) which we thought was the cat impeeding flow at high rpm/flow.
The car seems to be the same with the decat 3'' also.
It was in this decat state the car ran the 407 bhp at Well Lane.
Graham.
30 May 2005, 07:18 PM
#245
Originally Posted by Bob Rawle
Looks like we need to raise the rev limit !!! Don't worry about the torque, due to the relatively slow run up PS torque figs are always like that, what impressed me about the car when mapping it was genuinely what you see, good flat torque curve and pulls forever, whatever the numbers are the curve shape's replicate what its like for real, Floyd I think I mentioned at the time your car has one of the best balanced mod packages I have ever come across, turbo porting was spot on. It was a pleasure to map it. We had a couple of "picky" areas but seems it ended up pretty good.
cheers
bob
cheers
bob
I'm going to concentrate on the handling now and enjoy the extra oomph for a while. I'm already putting plans together for Stage IV 
but I don't really want to upset the delivery in search of more power. The VF35 feels as if it spools much faster than the TD04 ever did and that's something I didn't expect, so if I add headers then this will be less so 
The other thing that has been a real suprise is just how good the TMIC is a keeping temps down - I haven't seen more than a few degrees over ambient on the move, even when ragging it (although a track day will test this to the full). F
PS I've not seen an invoice from Branko yet!
30 May 2005, 07:19 PM
#246
Tim, it is a 3'' Magnex full decat/no resonator oval back box, measured at 98 dB on the hill climb tracks.
The car revs like crazy with ease, just feel I am missing out on the 'last drop'.
It has been suggested that the TMIC is leaking, BUT, if so then 1.4 wouldn't be achieved in the first place.
The injectors are 550 and running about 70/80% duty iirc from Andy.(@ 1.4 bar)
Graham.
The car revs like crazy with ease, just feel I am missing out on the 'last drop'.
It has been suggested that the TMIC is leaking, BUT, if so then 1.4 wouldn't be achieved in the first place.
The injectors are 550 and running about 70/80% duty iirc from Andy.(@ 1.4 bar)
Graham.
30 May 2005, 07:50 PM
#248
Hmm, I was going to say it sounds like you turbo is being choked at the top end by something, with a 3 inch system that shouldn't be a problem (although I'm not a fan of the Magnex TBH) maybe it's the exhaust housing, but I find that hard to beleive...
30 May 2005, 08:39 PM
#249
I have to remember 407 x 340 isn't bad for a simple 2 litre with 'classic' mods on it and a great mapper!
I do have the stock inlet air box/panel filter, and Andy was going down that route after the cat change didn't seem to change much.
Maybe it is all about smoothing the whole inlet tract out as everyone else has done except me..
Graham.
I do have the stock inlet air box/panel filter, and Andy was going down that route after the cat change didn't seem to change much.
Maybe it is all about smoothing the whole inlet tract out as everyone else has done except me..
Graham.
09 June 2005, 01:24 PM
#250
Graham, David Vizard always used to bang on about reducing 'pumping losses' and this is the philosophy that I have stuck to.
On another matter, I spoke to the insurance company about all my mods I should have done it beofre I started but I knew it would be painful, so put it off. I need not have worried as the quote was better than expected so A-Plan get my vote 
F
On another matter, I spoke to the insurance company about all my mods
I should have done it beofre I started but I knew it would be painful, so put it off. I need not have worried as the quote was better than expected so A-Plan get my vote F
09 June 2005, 06:06 PM
#251
David Vizard, now there's a name from the past!
As to the insurance, i had a nice surprise on my mods too, but i have been with the same Broker now for 3 years (Footman James) which i think helps.
Mind you, my modified 911 (ie 3.2 litre engine instead of a 2.4, roll cage and lots more) dropped in cost to £181, agreed value, unlimited miles fully comp etc!
Cheaper than the wife's Yaris.....
Graham
As to the insurance, i had a nice surprise on my mods too, but i have been with the same Broker now for 3 years (Footman James) which i think helps.
Mind you, my modified 911 (ie 3.2 litre engine instead of a 2.4, roll cage and lots more) dropped in cost to £181, agreed value, unlimited miles fully comp etc!
Cheaper than the wife's Yaris.....
Graham
11 June 2005, 10:29 PM
#255
I've owned it since 1988, raced it, crashed it racing and now retired it from racing
Lovely car, just so slow (but cheap!)
Frightening to drive in the hill climbing way, but sounds just Sooooooooo goood on open exhausts
Graham.
Lovely car, just so slow (but cheap!)
Frightening to drive in the hill climbing way, but sounds just Sooooooooo goood on open exhausts
Graham.
12 July 2005, 09:04 AM
#257
\m/ ^_^ \m/
i can't think where you're taking it 
think mine would drive me mad before i even made it out of the country
think mine would drive me mad before i even made it out of the country
05 August 2005, 12:11 AM
#259
Oh dear more cash...
Well the economy upgrade has moved up a level. The extra power has showed why tuning is expensive. More power needs bigger brakes and better suspension.
I've already done the brakes so that's sorted but the chassis was largely untouched. The rear a/r was replaced with a Whiteline 22mm jobbie along with alloy swanky droplinks. This mod really upset the back end to the point of losing the car several times at Bedford This was before the power upgrade eek:
I couldn't punt the car with any confidence around corners for fear of wayward behaviour. A decision had to be made before the next Ring trip and all my dithering ended with a trip to Powerstation. I would have gone P1 suspension but I couldn't source it at the right price. This left coilovers and I went for a UK biased system rather than Jap stuff.
AST coilovers were spec'ed and fitted by Curtis in just over a morning (short play pass meant I had to get back for a deadline), which meant I really didn't have much time to talk through all the options so the set up was left to him.
I'll post the settings latter along with pictures of course.
F
I've already done the brakes so that's sorted but the chassis was largely untouched. The rear a/r was replaced with a Whiteline 22mm jobbie along with alloy swanky droplinks. This mod really upset the back end to the point of losing the car several times at Bedford
This was before the power upgrade eek:I couldn't punt the car with any confidence around corners for fear of wayward behaviour. A decision had to be made before the next Ring trip and all my dithering ended with a trip to Powerstation. I would have gone P1 suspension but I couldn't source it at the right price. This left coilovers and I went for a UK biased system rather than Jap stuff.
AST coilovers were spec'ed and fitted by Curtis in just over a morning (short play pass meant I had to get back for a deadline), which meant I really didn't have much time to talk through all the options so the set up was left to him.
I'll post the settings latter along with pictures of course.
F
05 August 2005, 07:22 AM
#260
Did curtis fit classic road rate springs?
Where is your ride height?
Interested that you had issues with the 'rear only bar' mod as Whiteline were insistant 3 years ago that i installed front and back and sort the chassis by rear hole selection.
Must admit to being very impressed with the AST's as they are, and feel there is a lot more to come yet.
It was my first contact with PowerStation too, and that was painless.
It will be good to see how you fare as you track your and i hill climb mine, very different experience.
Graham.
Where is your ride height?
Interested that you had issues with the 'rear only bar' mod as Whiteline were insistant 3 years ago that i installed front and back and sort the chassis by rear hole selection.
Must admit to being very impressed with the AST's as they are, and feel there is a lot more to come yet.
It was my first contact with PowerStation too, and that was painless.
It will be good to see how you fare as you track your and i hill climb mine, very different experience.
Graham.
05 August 2005, 01:02 PM
#261
Settings
The spring rates are 40Nm front and 30Nm rear. This sounds soft but it doesn't feel it and on bumpy B roads at high speed this should inspire confidence that higher rates wouldn't. The initial settings for damping are 5/4 clicks from soft (f/r), which is far firmer than OE but not uncomfortable.
The goemetry is:
Front -
Toe = +0.04 left and right
Camber = -1.23 left and right
Rear -
Toe = +0.02 left and right
Camber = -1.40 left and -1.34 right
Tyre pressures 34/32 initially IIRC (no checked this yet)
Ride height is lowered approx 30mm but should settle another 5mm. This leaves a gap of 2 small fingers between tyre and wheel arch!
Bumpsteer mod has been done of course although I didn't ask Curtis how much he had to adjust it.
Whiteline rear 22mm a/r bar on middle setting.
It is interesting that the chap who is doing John Banks' experimental set up isn't worried about spring rates saying that this isn't as important as damping. We shall see how that pans out. Curtis did comment that my rear end woes could be down to the alloy doplinks interfering with the tie bar but again we didn't have time to check that out.
F
The goemetry is:
Front -
Toe = +0.04 left and right
Camber = -1.23 left and right
Rear -
Toe = +0.02 left and right
Camber = -1.40 left and -1.34 right
Tyre pressures 34/32 initially IIRC (no checked this yet)
Ride height is lowered approx 30mm but should settle another 5mm. This leaves a gap of 2 small fingers between tyre and wheel arch!
Bumpsteer mod has been done of course although I didn't ask Curtis how much he had to adjust it.
Whiteline rear 22mm a/r bar on middle setting.
It is interesting that the chap who is doing John Banks' experimental set up isn't worried about spring rates saying that this isn't as important as damping. We shall see how that pans out. Curtis did comment that my rear end woes could be down to the alloy doplinks interfering with the tie bar but again we didn't have time to check that out.
F
05 August 2005, 01:11 PM
#262
How's it handle?
The drive home was fast but I was too busy concentrating on the road to think very hard about the new set up. Initially it feels more giggly than OE with the ride being quite compliant. I couldn't hear any knocking or twangs from the springs even over pot holes but there was the annoying squeeeeeek from the rear parcel shelf The adjusters were rubbing on the cardboard and really making a racket aarrggghhh! I'll have to sort that out before I do anything else.
Would you believe that I haven't driven the car since the drive home? It's true, so I'll need to take it for a blast later and report back.
F
The adjusters were rubbing on the cardboard and really making a racket aarrggghhh! I'll have to sort that out before I do anything else.Would you believe that I haven't driven the car since the drive home? It's true, so I'll need to take it for a blast later and report back.
F
Last edited by Floyd; 05 August 2005 at 11:02 PM.
05 August 2005, 11:01 PM
#264
Yes! The acid test... Are you going too Steven?
Went out for a quick blast tonight, the ride was more bumpy than I remember from the trip back from PS but then again I've just been driving a Renault Scenic people carrier for a week
I have the soft springs and the damping is on one of the softer settings but it still seems choppy on bumpy B roads. Not sure if it'll settle down so I'll just have to drive it some more and see. On the plus side there seems to be lots of grip and on smooth surfaces it bodes well.
My centre exhaust resonator is only 3 or so inches from the ground so I'll need to watch out for speed bumps etc.
On slow sections of rough road there have been some unusual noises from the rear and the front but I was warned that this will happen until they set up has bedded down. Time will tell.
F
Went out for a quick blast tonight, the ride was more bumpy than I remember from the trip back from PS but then again I've just been driving a Renault Scenic people carrier for a week
I have the soft springs and the damping is on one of the softer settings but it still seems choppy on bumpy B roads. Not sure if it'll settle down so I'll just have to drive it some more and see. On the plus side there seems to be lots of grip and on smooth surfaces it bodes well.My centre exhaust resonator is only 3 or so inches from the ground so I'll need to watch out for speed bumps etc.
On slow sections of rough road there have been some unusual noises from the rear and the front but I was warned that this will happen until they set up has bedded down. Time will tell.
F