clifford blackjax
23 February 2005, 02:45 PM
#91
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Originally Posted by KEVWRX95
5cby
For those of us who don't know, what exactly does this do, and how does it work?
Does this replace our whole security on our cars, or is this in addition to my cat 1 alarm and imobiliser?
Cheers Kevin.
For those of us who don't know, what exactly does this do, and how does it work?
Does this replace our whole security on our cars, or is this in addition to my cat 1 alarm and imobiliser?
Cheers Kevin.
What you are not told is the reason for this - UK legislation does not permit such devices. The "Motor Vehicle Construction and Use Regulations" prohibit the fitting of any device that takes control away from the driver (whether legitimate or not) and it is also an offence to cause an obstruction on the highway with an immobilised vehicle.
Although there has not yet been a spectacular court case (such as the woman prosicuted for eating an apple!!), I imagine that if a vehicle immobilised by such a device were involved in a serious accident, involving other road users aswell as the car thief, the legislation would be made clearer for all.
Even the recently launched Thatcham Category 5 Stolen Vehicle Recovery Systems stop short of bringing a vehicle to rest and can only cut the starter circuit, whilst the vehicle is in visual contact of a police officer who can confirm that it is safe to do so and then only once authorisation has been given by the Chief Constable!!
Just bear these points in mind and also ask if the product is CE marked for your safety, if it meets EU 95/54 and EU 95/56 security and electrical standards for electronic devices in motor vehicles.
I understand everyones concerns regarding theft and the frustrations of UK legislation, but I believe everyone should be made aware of these points and where you stand legally before making a decision to fit such a device.
SS
23 February 2005, 04:39 PM
#92
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there is always one!
valid points sam.
but when was the last time someone was prosecuted for breaking down?
a blackjax can be just as poorly diagnosed as a faulty immobiliser. I very much doubt a case such as this wouldn;t be thrown out of court.
Thatcham cat 5 has to be sold to the letter of thr law because it is an industry standard.
But when you buy a car I would be surprised if it is sold with a warning that you may face prosecution if your car is stuck in the middle of the road.
You should also make it clear that this unit cuts power, it doesn't remove all control from the driver. eg. you will stillbe able to operate the brakes (without servo assistance to some degree) and turn the steering wheel (again without assistance). That does not mean you are devoid of control.
valid points sam.
but when was the last time someone was prosecuted for breaking down?
a blackjax can be just as poorly diagnosed as a faulty immobiliser. I very much doubt a case such as this wouldn;t be thrown out of court.
Thatcham cat 5 has to be sold to the letter of thr law because it is an industry standard.
But when you buy a car I would be surprised if it is sold with a warning that you may face prosecution if your car is stuck in the middle of the road.
You should also make it clear that this unit cuts power, it doesn't remove all control from the driver. eg. you will stillbe able to operate the brakes (without servo assistance to some degree) and turn the steering wheel (again without assistance). That does not mean you are devoid of control.
23 February 2005, 10:13 PM
#93
Originally Posted by Sigma Sam
As far as I am aware this product is not officially on sale in the UK.
What you are not told is the reason for this - UK legislation does not permit such devices. The "Motor Vehicle Construction and Use Regulations" prohibit the fitting of any device that takes control away from the driver (whether legitimate or not) and it is also an offence to cause an obstruction on the highway with an immobilised vehicle.
Although there has not yet been a spectacular court case (such as the woman prosicuted for eating an apple!!), I imagine that if a vehicle immobilised by such a device were involved in a serious accident, involving other road users aswell as the car thief, the legislation would be made clearer for all.
Even the recently launched Thatcham Category 5 Stolen Vehicle Recovery Systems stop short of bringing a vehicle to rest and can only cut the starter circuit, whilst the vehicle is in visual contact of a police officer who can confirm that it is safe to do so and then only once authorisation has been given by the Chief Constable!!
Just bear these points in mind and also ask if the product is CE marked for your safety, if it meets EU 95/54 and EU 95/56 security and electrical standards for electronic devices in motor vehicles.
I understand everyones concerns regarding theft and the frustrations of UK legislation, but I believe everyone should be made aware of these points and where you stand legally before making a decision to fit such a device.
SS
What you are not told is the reason for this - UK legislation does not permit such devices. The "Motor Vehicle Construction and Use Regulations" prohibit the fitting of any device that takes control away from the driver (whether legitimate or not) and it is also an offence to cause an obstruction on the highway with an immobilised vehicle.
Although there has not yet been a spectacular court case (such as the woman prosicuted for eating an apple!!), I imagine that if a vehicle immobilised by such a device were involved in a serious accident, involving other road users aswell as the car thief, the legislation would be made clearer for all.
Even the recently launched Thatcham Category 5 Stolen Vehicle Recovery Systems stop short of bringing a vehicle to rest and can only cut the starter circuit, whilst the vehicle is in visual contact of a police officer who can confirm that it is safe to do so and then only once authorisation has been given by the Chief Constable!!
Just bear these points in mind and also ask if the product is CE marked for your safety, if it meets EU 95/54 and EU 95/56 security and electrical standards for electronic devices in motor vehicles.
I understand everyones concerns regarding theft and the frustrations of UK legislation, but I believe everyone should be made aware of these points and where you stand legally before making a decision to fit such a device.
SS
Without going into details....
Blackjax does not cut the engine or power whilst driving.
and it'll be the car theives causing the obstruction, not the owner.
Bob
24 February 2005, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by BOB'5
Without going into details....
Blackjax does not cut the engine or power whilst driving.
and it'll be the car theives causing the obstruction, not the owner.
Bob
Blackjax does not cut the engine or power whilst driving.
and it'll be the car theives causing the obstruction, not the owner.
Bob
24 February 2005, 12:00 PM
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In my post I didn't specify that the system cut engine power - I am aware of how it functions. If you read the Motor Vehicle Construction and Use Regulations they are more vague and state "Control" which allows more scope for arguement!
I just wanted to point out this grey area as I wouldn't like to be agueing the case that I (as the person that had activated the system) were not responsible for the the accident involving the school bus at the crossroads where the vehicle had come to a halt, and could not be moved in time, as a result of my actions - not a malfunction.
In fact it may be that the installer could be just as liable as the operator.
There are moves afoot to change ECE Reg 97 regarding systems that allow controlled degradation of a vehicles speed in such a way, but currently legislation does not allow this - hence the absence of any "e" marking on the product.
Don't shoot the messenger... just felt these points should be raised!
SS
I just wanted to point out this grey area as I wouldn't like to be agueing the case that I (as the person that had activated the system) were not responsible for the the accident involving the school bus at the crossroads where the vehicle had come to a halt, and could not be moved in time, as a result of my actions - not a malfunction.
In fact it may be that the installer could be just as liable as the operator.
There are moves afoot to change ECE Reg 97 regarding systems that allow controlled degradation of a vehicles speed in such a way, but currently legislation does not allow this - hence the absence of any "e" marking on the product.
Don't shoot the messenger... just felt these points should be raised!
SS
Last edited by Sigma Sam; 24 February 2005 at 02:19 PM.
28 February 2005, 06:30 PM
#97
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ok who has had there's fitted then
1. 5cby - PAID being fitted 5th march
2. uk95scooby
3. MDBinaWagon - PAID
4. austen wrx - PAID
5. journeyman
6. pogue P A I D
7. pantelis - PAID
8. mattdoyle -PAID
9. Wmscooby - PAID
10. Homerjunior - PAID
11.thebothy-PAID
12.scooby skunk
13. Scooby-Mark - PAID
big thx to everyone who took part
steve and sally(the wife she rang to organise it)
1. 5cby - PAID being fitted 5th march
2. uk95scooby
3. MDBinaWagon - PAID
4. austen wrx - PAID
5. journeyman
6. pogue P A I D
7. pantelis - PAID
8. mattdoyle -PAID
9. Wmscooby - PAID
10. Homerjunior - PAID
11.thebothy-PAID
12.scooby skunk
13. Scooby-Mark - PAID
big thx to everyone who took part
steve and sally(the wife she rang to organise it)
03 March 2005, 11:23 AM
#98
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Had mine fitted yesterday 
Haven't managed to forget to enter the pin number and set it off yet
Top service from Motorguard, very friendly and helpful will definatley use them in the future and reccomend them to people !!
Thanks guys
Mark.
Haven't managed to forget to enter the pin number and set it off yet
Top service from Motorguard, very friendly and helpful will definatley use them in the future and reccomend them to people !!Thanks guys
Mark.
05 March 2005, 06:10 PM
#99
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Big thanks to Motoguard. 
Had my blackjax fitted today and very happy with the results. Was given a through demo of how the unit worked and now feel much more secure driving around. 
Get in touch with these guys if you ever want anything security or car audio related!
Had my blackjax fitted today and very happy with the results. Was given a through demo of how the unit worked and now feel much more secure driving around. Get in touch with these guys if you ever want anything security or car audio related!
07 March 2005, 10:43 AM
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On the contrary.... I have never used posts to promote a product or to disrespect another (I'm sure you're not doing that yourself, as you will know that Radio Lock-Out has effected more than one manufacturer in the past!)
I have said nothing against the product itself - read my post again - I was simply pointing out legislative aspects that I feel should be cosidered.
I am not promoting a similar product and have nothing to gain here.
I try to help members with technical questions wherever possible and I am more than aware of current legislation and felt that the points were worth raising.
I said "to ask" if the product was CE marked - if it is, then all well and good, but I stand by my comments regarding Construction and Use, ECE Reg 97 etc with could be open to debate.
This maybe unpopular, but I'm afraid that I am not responsible for the legislation.
I'm sorry that you felt the need for such a post.
SS
I have said nothing against the product itself - read my post again - I was simply pointing out legislative aspects that I feel should be cosidered.
I am not promoting a similar product and have nothing to gain here.
I try to help members with technical questions wherever possible and I am more than aware of current legislation and felt that the points were worth raising.
I said "to ask" if the product was CE marked - if it is, then all well and good, but I stand by my comments regarding Construction and Use, ECE Reg 97 etc with could be open to debate.
This maybe unpopular, but I'm afraid that I am not responsible for the legislation.
I'm sorry that you felt the need for such a post.
SS
Originally Posted by Mark@InCarSystems
I see sigma sam is just pleased that he can disrespect another product, a relief from people complaining ther sigma has locked them out. By the way it is CE marked
Last edited by Sigma Sam; 07 March 2005 at 12:03 PM.
07 March 2005, 05:59 PM
#103
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Originally Posted by Sigma Sam
On the contrary....
SS
SS
When the government do something useful to deter car criminals in the UK, then maybe we won't have to resort to such means to defend OUR property from these Scumbags!
Regards,
NS04
06 March 2006, 07:19 PM
#106
Originally Posted by BOB'5
How's everyone getting on with theirs?
Mines playing up at the mo.
Bob
Mines playing up at the mo.
Bob
Whats up with it mate?
Had mine fitted on saturday,noticed it didnt have a seperate siren this time and was wired into the horn.....last car i had it on had a siren that was deafening when activated..
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