K;

The winter and 'Phase 1/2' seem a real distance away.
The work then has been really paid-back.
The 407 bhp car is a real blast in competition when all hell breaks loose compared to a blat on the road.
The people who helped me through the task can never be thanked enough, but that's what is soooo goood about these threads.

Must try harder to catch the EVO's!

Graham

 

Pavlo;
Yes, serious. That is a killer start time on Dunlop 'List 1B' tyres for a hill climb start.
His MOTEC/traction control/start control whatever is realy tuned-in, BUT, there was a speed trap about 100 meters along from the start, and he cut it at 73 mph, my Sti at 69 and the GTi Nissan at 67.
Although the time to cover (I recon in 1st) 64 feet was mega fast, our cars went through the speed trap almost as fast.
For his 1.85, I cut 2.13 and the Nissan 2.09.

The grip on the start was not too good.
The EVO was the fastest all day of all the 200 cars there.

Graham.

 

Graham, your car is a bright car is it not?

 

Dragging this engine based thread back!

Been to PowerStation's RR/Open day and the car delivered 370 x 300 which is probably more representative than the 407 x 340 at Well Lane ages ago.

This is a pic of the RR sheet from PS.

Any comments on the glitch at 6000 rpm?
The trans grag at 180 bhp seems high to me.

As David Wallis has previouslt stated, looks like the result is a 380 ish engine, but I'm dissapointed in the torque.
The 20g does start to loose boost there so must be the culprit!

Opinions welcome.



Graham.

 

The glitch could be down to fuelling.
Any time in the past when my car was mapped, on a rolling road it always gave a glitch in the curve at about 5500rpm, yet fuelling looked spot on when checked out on the road.
At the last RR run i had with the 2litre it showed this dip again, but this time we altered the map to suit the AFR sensor used by the RR operator (up the tailpipe) and gave a smooth curve. It brought my torque up a bit in doing so (some 10-15Ib ft IIRC)and strangely enough the car was happy out on the road as well after that.

The drag looks too high to me as well but that all depends on things like what oil, what gearset etc you're running as well as what tyres, what pressure etc etc. At 400 odd brake i'd expect around 100-120ish *as an average* but really depends on the set up.

Ambient,inlet, humidity etc look good.

 

Graham,

It would be interesting to compare the graph and specs to my old car - Morpheous now owns it and he was at powerstation yesterday - it's running a stock TD05 (modified to FE) and made 325/300 on optimax - so I guess the conditions/rr setup would be the same -

He should be easy enough to get hold of, but if not, he's kindly supplied me with the graphs, which I'm sure he wouldn't mind me posting on my web site for all to access, together with the spec.

As I say, its his car now, so I'd rather it came from him, but if you can't get hold of him, give me a shout, if you'd like to see them

Cheers,

Mark

 

No probs Mark was speaking to Graham yesterday

 

Hi Graham,

Rich would explain it better but the drag figure is the total loss including both roller sets so its not the true lose you will have on the road.
As Alan said there are lots of things that will change the drag, like what gear the car is run in but the Power figure should remain the same.

Iain

 

Thanks to all who have answered me; this is all good stuff.
When AndyF mapped the car on the road (not RR) the car had the sports cat on. For Well Lane I put the decat on which stayed on. It was in this form it went on PS's RR.

On the road mapping we couldnot get it to 'flow' more than 1.4 bar at about 5K and the boost tailed of to 1.1/1.2 at 6,5/7K rpm.

Whatever Andy tried it refused to budge.

Does this still sound like fueling?

For the hill climbs next year I will be fitting a cat for permanent, and the Milltek sports cat/system seen yesterday looked great if they do one for the Classic (?)
The cat I have is about 200 where i think the Miltek is about 100 to the square inch.

Strange to be 'talking' engines again after so much suspension!

Graham.

 

Graham (sorry - can't remember this info) - What inlet is it running and what headers ?

Mark

 

Engine spec is:

Sti v3 stock internals
Stock inlet except for a Samco inlet pipe to suit the TD 05 20g.
Headers are Gruppe s unequal stainless with Helix up-pipe.
550cc injectors/Walbro/SX fuel reg @ 3 bar
Parallel fuel rail mod and engine breather remote catch tank mod
Sti V8 TMIC
3'' decat right through
Apexi FC mapped by AndyF
Optimax and max NF booster mix

note: cotton panel filter with resonator cut out and cold air inlet from under indicator unit opened up.

Hope this helps.

Graham.

 

Hi Graham
This is a link to my dyno graph
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...no/dyno005.jpg

 

They are SO similar!
Mine seems to be about 1000 rpm later.

What spec is the engine?

I think i will forward my graph to AndyF and see if he has any comments to add.
Thanks for taking the trouble to post it.

Graham.

 

Graham, Engine Spec:

98 UK Turbo internals
K+N 57i, fed via cold air through wing (no resonator), plus 5" PC Fan, all separated from engine bay with reflective heat shield (Also has reverse style bonnet scoop - but this would be inactive on RR of course)
Prodrive Silicon inlet pipe, no dump valve or breather T-s (Uses No D/V and breathers to K+N filters at atmo)
TD05FE (Standard wrx unit+FE conversion)
Hardpiped Hybrid FMIC (all lagged)
550 injectors /Walbro/FSE at 3.2 Bar
7b sparkplugs
'Rich Wild' modified, lagged headers
TSL Up-pipe (solid) - wrapped
TSL group A (3") D/P, centre-section and 4" Group N backbox
AVC-R boost controller and solenoid
Apexi PFC ECU mapped by AndyF
Engine undertray is also removed (you never know, it may affect the flow ;-) )

I have a fuel graph that was taken at the time of my last RR session (at scoobyclinic) - Ignore the bhp, its an AFR -> Boost run.... http://www.wildsworld.co.uk/images/P...owerGraph2.jpg

And the power graph then...

http://www.wildsworld.co.uk/images/P...owerGraph1.gif

Fuel was optimax too, but no booster....

Hope this helps,

Mark

 

Well pleased at 141500mls Who said these engines were made of treacle lol

 

My torque was low at PS and Bob R thought this is what he has seen there, due to the run up style. I checked the torque at WRC and it matched what I thought it should be and also what Bob guessed it at IIRC. I was happy with the power figure though

F

 

Mark:
Thanks for all the detail.
Have tried to contact Andy to see if there is a tweek that can be done.

Only have 2 more championship races to do plus a friendly Clubbie event to round it all off for the year.
Problem is what to do to find more grunt, ie more torque. Having just watched the German WRC report, god, those cars have some torque (even Petter's)

As ever, thanks to you all for the help.

Graham.

 

I wouldn't have expcted you to have peak power so high up at 7500rpm Graham.

Where was peak when you ran it at Well Lane?

 

Just found the read-out.

The graph I have is of the last of 5 successive runs, so all was stinking hot:

Peak power = 373 bhp @ 6333
Peak torque = 320 Lbft @ 6000

The day was very cold, about 15C, and very damp.

Graham.

 

Not an expert by any manner of means but it sounds like the loading on the rollers wasn't quite right for your car at PS.

 

strange graph.
its all rather late.


what did the well lane graph's look like?

 

I have more questions than answers Graham, as is usually the case with rolling roads !

1 - How many runs did they do ?
Previously your car needed a few runs to fully heat the exhaust manifold/turbo for maximum efficiency, then after further runs power tailed off as the induction/intercooler heat soaked.

2 - How efficient was the TMIC cooling fan ?
ie dedicated high pressure centrifugal blower ?

3 - What was the duration of the power run ?
ie like a 3rd gear pull on the road or longer ?

4 - how was the speed synchronised ?
Using the rev counter ?

Andy

 

Nicked from another thread about Powerstation RR day



Did you get full boost on your run Graham? Maybe not if it was in 3rd gear?

 

Now THAT@S top mount cooling!

 

1 - One run only(mine was in 4th gear)
2 - They have a blower for top mounts and a huge fan at the front of the car
3 - a full gear from the bottom in (4\5 or 6 depending on gear ratios)
4 - The vehicle is run up on the rollers and held at 3000rpm were it syncros the rollers to computer then its free rolling to stop..through the gears to start the run and planted in the gear they're going to run the car

 

Thanks for coming back Andy, you must be very busy, so much appreciated.
Morph is spot-on.

I have no moans about the RR just would like to understand if i can tweek the engine for next year's season.
I will run straight Optimax and a cat next year as the rules get much tighter; this will kill off a bit of the engine, but can I compensate for this by additional changes, including a remap.

Graham.

 

Pic of the Well Lane '5th run' printout:



Andy: The time to get the full run in 4th was like a full gear run on the road. The first full run attempt was aborted due to wheel slip on the rollers. a spray of something got the tyres to grip for the full blast.

Engine did not sound as hard edged as when at Well Lane, but the PS RR room is fully silenced.

Graham.

 

Graham, I've posted Morpheous' graph as a pic (rather than a link), to show comparatively the two torque curves - both achieve the same peak (407nm is ~300 lbs/ft), on the same day, on the same RR, but my old car (now Morpheous') seems to boost much earlier - though, of course, yours is showing as much more bhp, due to the revs*torque maths involved in the calculation (i.e. yours has much higher torque later in the range)

Can this all be down to the bigger turbo on yours ?

I wonder how they'd compare in real terms under differing uses (e.g. on the road, hill climb etc)

Mark

 

Looks like they make a decent effort to cool the tmic
One of the problems with these RR days are that the time constraints often dictate the run regime. Ideally the rpm is picked up from the coils, the rev counters are not accurate enough. 100 rpm out is the difference of 10lbs torque.
Ideally the car needs at least one warm up run to get the headers and turbine up to temp.
One positive thing graham, you didn't gain anything removing the cat so you shouldn't lose anything putting it back !
What are the changes to the regs ?

Andy

 

Interesting!
The RR at PowerStation was an Open Day freebie for about 46 cars! They worked so bloody hard to clear us all!

Type of fuel will become an issue, ie roadside pump fuel only, NO addatives.
Noise is of course closing in, Sti is still about the quietest car running on the midlands hills, but I expect a sniffer to be used on a random basis soon as the Environmentalists close in.

The cars have to have a valid MoT for the class (which is pointless as they are never checked) and I need to be whiter than white....

Hill climb regs are a good attempt at making a simple sport complex!

Graham.