LG John

LMAO Cons, ****s the environment up a bit. Pros, 30hp......bring it on

imlach

...and fear of missing your next nicotine fix is different how?

Willpower is not exclusively about adrenalin sessions. Willpower, by definition, is :

- self-command
- self-control
- presence of mind

All aspects which can be used in combating irrational fears and panic attacks as well as nicotine avoidance.

imlach

It depends how you fight. The key to panic attacks is still a strong willed resolve to create calm, rational, thoughts. (ie, been here before, nothing happened then, nothing will happen now, etc etc).

LG John

Perhaps willpower is defined differently from the word I'm looking for but in order for me do things/not do things (eat, not eat, give up smoking, booze, whatever) requires a form of 'energy' a 'grit' and 'determination' but energy, grit and determination make panic attacks worse. You need to reduce your energy during an attack but it doesn't work using willpower to try and do that. I know that makes little sense. Maybe a smoker that has panic attacks can explain better.

imlach

Also, the other thing with panic attacks is that once it has passed, I bet you feel it was a totally pointless irrational fear that came over you....and you resolve to beat it next time it happens.

Is that not equally as weak as someone who reaches for a ***, and 5 minutes later realises they really didn't need it, and they'll try to resist that irrational urge the next time?

LG John

Doesn't work! You are still using energy to fight it - your words, 'strong willed', 'resolve'. You have to 'accept' 'flow' though your attack and that requires a different kind of thinking. I've been there forcing myself to think rationally, saying to myself that its fine and there is nothing to be worried about but the energy I use to create these 'calming' thoughts just juices me up more and makes me worse.

imlach

Don't take this too personally Kenny (you know I just like to debate), but are you admitting to us that just perhaps, your brain sometimes doesn't think rationally??

Now, what were we saying about rationality and giving up smoking?

LG John

Back to pro's and cons of doing so Imlach:

Pro's is freedom from myself and the attacks but the cons are that I know I'd abuse that freedom even though deep down I don't really want to. If I knew I could be around women and sh@g them on the first night without knowing them then I'd wind up going on a one-night stand spree which is not someone I want to be deep down (although on the surface its very appealing). The bottom line is that my attacks often keep me on the straight and narrow and don't affect my life often enough to be a real problem.

I'm with a lovely lass now and benefit from knowing that I a) don't want to cheat and b) pysically couldn't. It's like double protection

LG John

Of course I'm admitting that, nobody is rational all the time. However, I can go from as calm as calm can be to stressed to bits in about 0.01s. It takes many more minutes to decide you need a ***, walk to the shops, buy a packet, open it and spark up. You have time for your willpower to kick in and say, 'I DO NOT NEED THIS'

imlach

...and this is how many give up. If they can get over the few minutes where they have this serious unexplainable urge for a nicotine fix, they are fine 5 minutes later....

This chemically induced urge lasts for minutes at a time. Sadly, long enough to reach for a packet, and light up.

LG John

We could go round here all day. The bottom line is I dont smoke and thankfully you smokers won't be harming me passively for too much longer. And that is all I have to say on the matter

Good luck to those trying to quit and those that are happy to go on then may your life be long

Vegescoob

Just love this thread! Saxo Boy you ask why anyone would want to smoke. I ask you why would anyone want an extra ? bhp on a Scooby? In fact why, logically, would anyone need a car with more than say 100 bhp in 70mph Britain.
Cos of the rush. Just like drugs, sex ,exercise , mountaineering, bungee jumping, work (for some).Add your own favourites.
We are a species prone to addiction.
Oh and the ones I disagree with most are the ones addicted to power and telling others what to do. I mean religious leaders and politicians of all parties.
I am not against a ban on smoking in public places.

LG John

I hope that isn't a dig. If you think that is me you are quite wrong. Half the reason I get stressed around women is fear of them saying 'yes' when they mean, 'I'm not comfortable and you're an ******* for making me feel like this'

imlach

Kenny, I think he DID mean politicians and those in positions of power....

Vegescoob

Imlach, yes that is what I meant cos they are the ones esp. polliticians who can dictate what I can and can't do. Why?

LG John

I can dictate whether you can extend you house or not.....now THAT is power

Vegescoob

Am I not correct in saying that it's not you who can dictate planning decisions but the politicians on the planning committee. They may accept your recommendation but the actual power resides with them.
And anyway I can always appeal to John Prescott esp. if I'm a big developer and have contributed to NL.

SiPie

****....

I go away, have some dinner, come back, and you guys are on to panic attacks

What next ?

Kenny

Glad to see you have read Dr Claire Weeke's books and I hope you are getting the full benefit of them...

You knew this was coming.. but........

I would disagree on the willpower side of things and panic attacks. You need willpower to maintain a constant resolve and determination to keep practising in the correct way and to take whatever the ******* throw at you.

One day, months or years later (even armed with all this information) a **** off flash of panic will hit you in the pit of your gut, just when you thought they were all done and dusted and you'd almost forgot all about them. To me that's when real willpower comes into play, combined with the correct inner voice, (something that Imlach touches on earlier in the thread)

It would be all too easy to slip back into old habits and start adding a second fear i.e. They are back again, i thought they'd gone, oh no, I'm going through this again, and it's going to be really bad this time !!

Because you've maybe been panic free for sometime, the contrast between the renewed panic and the relative good health you've been enjoying, makes this new panic seem even worse than previous attacks. It's here where I feel the will is truly tested...

Anyway smoking sucks and there are plenty of days when my brain flashes a big I want a joint/cigarette but treated the same way as a flash of panic, the craving soon passes

imlach

Christ on a bike - there goes SiPie again expanding on what I was trying to say on panic attacks

SiPie

Lol @ Imlach.......

LG John

Maybe that is the case for you Sipie but you have to remember that my panic attacks are nowhere near as bad as the ones you describe. They are at worst mildly inconvenient and thankfully quite rare and usually only cause when I put myself in situations I'm not deep down comfortable with. I really don't want to discuss it any more as I really believe it is of little relevance.

Just back from a club and my clothes stink

Regarding planning decisions, the majority of applications I clear are through delegated powers and need no checking by my manager or councillors

Leslie

Addiction to smoking is as bad as any other drug addiction, especially when the tobacco companies are alleged to put additives in the tobacco to make it worse. Totally cynical lack of concern for the grief that cigarettes cause due to their excessive greed if that is true.

It takes an enormous amount amount of will power, usually coupled with some kind of unusual event in one's life to manage to kick the habit.

Of course smokers know the risks and the addiction forces them to continue hoping that they will get away with it and if they dont, that maybe an operation will save them. Its amazing the excuses you can think up to keep at it.

I think it does no harm to relate bad experiences in relation to smoking in an attempt to help those who want to kick the habit. That really is the reason why we ex smokers do that, we want to help others escape from such a dangerous pastime since we understand better than any how difficult it is and the enormous benefits od success.

One of the most easily apparent advantages is the amazing amount of money that you save which really increases your quality of life.

Les

Vegescoob

Sorry to come back to this but your powers are not absolute, merely delegated . My point was that if you refused my planning application I have the right to appeal to those who actually have the power by statute.
I don't want to fall out over this by the way, just enjoying the cut and thrust of intellectual and vaguely philosophical debate.

LG John

You are quite correct vege they are not absolute but few people actually have such power. Neverthelss I'd write a refusal report so tight the reporter couldn't help but rule in my favour.............so.......

Vegescoob

We could parry this forever but if my planning permission was that important to me I'd always have something up my sleeve don't you worry.

Senior_AP

Is it fair that a non-smoker should be forced to breath in the ****e that comes out of cigarettes?? Answer - no.

So a ban in public places is fair.

End of.

LG John

I think that is ultimately what this thread boils down to senior Imagine how horrified someone that is T-total would be if they went into a pub and came out a few hours later merry despite not having a drink because everyone in there was getting absolutely blattered. It's just not cricket.

DocJock

Isn't this whole argument fuelled by the definition of a 'public place' ?

OK, legally, a pub is technically a public place, but to all intents and purposes it is a private place to which the public have access.
The owner should be able to permit smoking if they wish and those who do not want to smoke passively do not need to enter the premises but can toddle off to a pub where the owner does not allow smoking.

It is the blanket nature of the legislation that causes so much aggravation and that is typical of governement legislation. They really do not have the mental capacity to deal with anything which is not black or white.

I've never smoked but I respect the right of others to do so if they wish, as long as they respect my right to be able to get away from their "exhaust fumes" in certain places