Jye

Yeah the ol' whisky breath is sooo sexy

Geezer

Truly iditoic. Pubs are not full of people smoking weed! People are not being banned from smoking in the open air or in the privacy of their own home, so that statement is utterly irrelevant

Geezer

Senior_AP

Non-smokling section?? Outside?? Nicer, non peasant town pubs??

Jye

I though the gist of the question was to point the finger at those folk (very few I'd imagine) who condemn **** while smoking hash/weed. I know quite a few non (ciggie) smokers who still have an after dinner j or 2. I'm never sure if it's for the hash/weed or nicotine

But yes, totally irrelevant

Senior_AP

Good one.

Vegescoob

My question was aimed at discovering to what extent those, who rightly point out the potential health risks to the smoker and those around, may be prepared to compromise their attitude for a different pleasure.I know some who do.

Senior_AP

I don't want to be forced to breathe in that crap.

Ban is long overdue. Englands turn now.

No dog ends, no walking behind someone in the street then suddenly getting a face full of the slipstream *** smoke.

Dirt dirt dirt.

Geezer

I doubt that is likely to happen, it's only in enclosed places like pubs, restaurants etc. People will still be able to smoke ou ton the street and leave their dog ends everywhere.

Geezer

logiclee

Just to back up what Leslie was trying to say, I was in hospital in May after having a heart attack.

I don't smoke and have no other risk factors other than living with heavy smokers (my parents) for 20 years.

Now I can't say if my heart disease is caused by passive smoking but I have some other figures.
There were over 50 patients on the Cardiac ward, I was the only non smoker.
Through my time on the Cardiac Rehabilitaion program I met over 80 other people recovering from heart conditions and operations. I only met one other non-smoker.
I never met anyone who said they were happy they started smoking.


On the revenue side, all the US bans have resulted in an increased trade for the liesure industry, New York has seen a 9% increase in trade.

Ireland which was supposed to see a massive drop in trade has seen only a 1.3% drop and is now recovering, 2005 is predicted to see trade increase to a higher level than before the ban.
Pilot schemes in the UK have seen a similar trend, an initial drop off in trade is replaced by an increase in trade once people realise they can go and drink in a clean air atmosphere.

Cheers
Lee

SiPie

Pure grass joints

Still Carcinogenic though

LG John

The thing I've never understood is the cronic 40 a day smokers. How can they justify the cost? There must be a few on here so I'll do the math for their benefit. 40 a day must cost about £8 a day x 365 days = £2920! Now assuming said smokers are car enthusiasts with say a classic shaped standard scooby then if they give up now for next Xmas they can be running an uprated turbo, defi's, uprated top mount, full decat and around 100bhp more than they have now!! Believe me 320bhp scoobys are WAAAAAY more fun than 215bhp ones!

Can you HONESTLY say that you'd rather smoke 14600 sticks of death than have a totally sorted car because that is the difference. Stretch your habit out over 10 years and you have £29k which would probably be more like £35k with the interest!!! Give up smoking now and you could be driving a 360 Modena as a second car in 10 years time. Its a total no-brainer as far as I see Enlighten me as to WHY any adult would choose to smoke?!

imlach

SB,

As I said before, it's just not THAT easy for some to give up. It seems simplistic, and it is for some, but it's also not so easy for some....

Remember, a large number of smokers DON'T want to smoke, and it does seem to require a large dose of willpower to get it sorted.

PS Making a packed lunch every day instead of buying sandwiches would add £30k to your pension The old saying "look after the pennies, the pounds will look after themselves" applies here.....the amount spent per day does not seem significant enough for people to see that over the space of a few years it adds up to tens of thousands....

SiPie

Kenny

I've resisted the urge to jump in here mate up until now, but I'm afraid you are showing some real naivety here, which is understandable as you have never smoked.

There is no rational reason why anyone would chose to smoke.... but you'd be amazed at the power nicotine has over the brain.

May I suggest you starve yourself tomorrow and see if you notice any hunger or similar feeling? Ok... you are getting the idea.....

Nicotine withdrawal creates exactly the same feeling, a restless insecure feeling. Some people suss out that it's a catch 22 situation and if you cut off the supply of nicotine that initially caused the withdrawal symptoms in the first place, then the withdrawal symptoms will fade away with time. The physical withdrawal symptoms are mild, but if you interpret them incorrectly then they can turn into a huge psychological problem and you convince yourself that you just can't live without cigarettes.

It's the fear of being miserable for the rest of your life that can often keep smokers hooked on the dreaded weed, as previous quit attempts have resulted in them practically pulling their hair out

Smokers know it kills them and are nowadays all aware of the health risks, they know it costs a fortune, they know it's anti-social, so being a really intelligent guy like you are, try and give some thought as to why smokers still smoke rather than wasting time on working out how to beat a roulette table and labelling smokers as weak

You were smart enough NOT to start, but for some of us lesser mortals, it has been a tough challenge to bin it.

You don't understand smoking and nicotine addiction - FACT, so although your assumptions about it being a no brainer are 100% rationally correct, it is not nearly as simple as you think, as nicotine addiction doesn't work rationally.

I couldn't understand the whole thing either until I read Allen Carr's book (the Easyway to stop smoking) and it all made sense....

I'm picking on you here as I know you are bright and you are a perfect example of the non-smoker preaching to smokers.

ie. You are giving it to smokers and their disgusting, pointless, expensive, suicidal habit (all FACT) and they are doing exactly the same to you and your all smokers are weak thinking......

I've done alot of Allen Carr quoting here, but he does know his subject.

Stick that in your pipe and errrr, oh well

Si (ex-smoker)

imlach

More or less what I was trying to say SiPie!
I am not a smoker either (never have been), and USED to share the same view/logic as Kenny in my youth (!!), but have been enlightened over the years.....

logiclee

As smoking is such a dangerous, expensive, addictive, anti-social drug I can't see why there aren't more clinic's to help people stop.

I'm sure some people would be prepared to pay a years smoking money and use a years holidays to kick the addiction.

Or am I over simplifying nicotene addiction?

In the latest UK pole only 11% of people said they would use pubs less if smoking was banned, 46% said it would make no difference and 24% said they would go out more.

So why isn't England going for a ban? Could it be that the minister making the decision is a smoker who used to be on 60 a day?

Lee

LG John

I do see many of your points si and respect you were a smoker and are a good friend and are FAR from weak given what you've come through (are you smoking again btw?). However, the bottom line is human willpower is massively strong when you muster it up! I don't care who you are ANYBODY can find the strength in themselves to quit just like ANYONE can find the strength in themselves to quite herion, etc.

You use the word niave but I feel that is harsh. Perhaps its niave of me to think that everyone is as strong willed as me and for that I'm guilty as charged but I'd don't believe its niave to think people can quit. I can only go on what I know and I KNOW that I could give up ANYTHING I wanted if I had to even if it had an 'addictive' nature. My gran did it too. 40-60 a day for 30-odd years then just stopped dead one day because as an 8 year old I complained it would kill her.

And if you smokers think NOT doing (i.e not smoking) something is hard try DOING something!! For example, I find eating excessively for bulking at the gym far far far harder than dieting to cut. Imagine if you HAD to force yourself to smoke 200 **** a day........now THAT requires willpower.

Si, how long does it take to become addicted to nicotine? If its a week or so then I'll be willing to take up smoking for a month or 2 and then stop to prove to you its just a case of willpower. If its 6 months then that is too long for me to be bothered with (and costly)

imlach

Err....not many can do that either. You only hear the success stories....
There are many many more that fail.

No disrespect Kenny, but I don't think you have either :

a) an addictive nature
b) you've also never had a chemical addiction to ****/booze/heroin.

I repeat, it's not as simplistic as you make out in many cases.

SiPie

Because at this present time, the British Medical Association has determined that the best way to stop people from smoking is to precribe them nicotine

(Smoker)Hi doctor, I'm a nicotine addict, can you please help me quit this evil drug ?
(Doctor)Why sure, here's a prescription for 8 weeks nicotine...

logiclee

Hmmmm.........

Yes a bit strange that one.

I think SB has a point when he says the Willpower is in most people it's just finding it.
My Cardiac Rehabilitation group has a very high rate of people who stop smoking during the program.
It's just sad that it takes a lot of people to have a heart attack before they find the willpower to stop.

Cheers
Lee

LG John

Hmmmm, do you think if I go to my doctor and tell him I've got a ************ problem he'll give me free ****?

"an addictive nature" - actually most of my friends comment that I do have an obsessive/addictive nature. When I get into something I REALLY get into something, cars, mountainbikes, cards, etc, etc.

I do so your point. I guess I'd just hope/believe that we are all born equal and that anyone can find the power if they search deep. I'm no great human, there are many millions of things I can't do but I do believe that if I wanted to there is very little that I ACTUALLY couldn't do. At this time I couldn't write a book as my english and grammer isn't good enough. However, if I put my mind to it and made it my goal then I'd learn and I'd one day write a well written book.

We are not machines, we DO NOT have fixed parameters. We are human and able to learn and adapt and grow - it's our greatest quality and what makes us virtually limitless! Take these people that suffer horrific injuries, loose limbs, etc yet come back to live normal lives or do amazing feats!!! Do you not think that take more guts, blood, sweat and determination than cutting out 20 ****. Think about it, seriously

LG John

That is sadly just human nature........the, 'it'll never happen to me syndrome'!

SiPie

Totally agree with you on that one.....

No Kenny, I'm not smoking any more mate
Heaps more energy when off the weed, and I agree that people are plain mad to smoke..... It's just they are addicted and are being brainwashed into thinking that they can't have a quality of life without the evil weed. It's complicated, but if you can be bothered one day, I'll lend you the book. It takes about 3 hours to read and it would give you some great arguing points v's smokers who think they can justify smoking

eg. The smoker who insists that it's a habit and habits are hard to break, Allen Carr reckons that we're in the habit of driving on the left hand side of the road in the UK but as soon as you are on the continent you soon break that habit with relative ease Fair point !!!!1

Nicotine can be instantly addictive, so please don't try that one just to prove a point

I know you are really strong willed and could quit anything if you wanted, but.......






.....How's the job going anyway ?

imlach

I agree, but as logiclee said, it is only when a human has faced potential mortality that seems to induce the willpower required....

Until that point, the willpower seems to lie dormant in many, either through :

- laziness
- naivety
- ignorance
- feeling of immortality

Having a *** has no immediate detriment on one's health (ie, at the point in time when one is smoked). Therefore, it is too easy to remove the connection subconsciously between a *** & death.

Have an accident where your legs & arms are lost, and you have a visible reminder 24/7 about where you are, and where you want to get to.

LG John

Nice try but that isn't a fair example! I COULD just quit my job tommorrow if the benefits of doing that outweighed the cons but they don't. Yes I am VERY unhappy in my job but if I assume the worst case situation that I don't find replacement work and can't make mortgage payments then I must conclude that would be a whole lot worse. It is for this reason that I stay and search for new work whilst still getting paid every month. Its a simple push/pull factor and I think you'd be hard pressed to ever argue that the pro's of smoking outweigh the cons and therefore the decision to quit should always be simple.

........interview on monday mate

imlach

Willpower requires true mind over matter.
Are there any others aspects of life where you cannot control what your mind is doing? Panic attacks, fear, anxiety, etc.

ie, do you have an irrational fear of anything? If so, why can't you rationally & logically erase that fear?

Is one WEAK for having a fear of spiders or fear of going out?

Jye

lol @ the simplistic views on this thread, black & white sn @ it's best

LG John

I've got a solution to that.......put a substance in every 1 millionth *** that will kill you almost intantly. That'll make them think twice

imlach

That's similar to my patented idea about putting a dagger facing outwards from the steering wheel of every car. Would dramatically reduce road accidents

Vegescoob

So Saxo Boy I see you advocate decat for Scoobs in your "benefits of giving up smoking for Scooby owners". This potentially increases pollution surely or is this an example of selective principles in that the extra pollution out of a decat can't be seen and no one actually stands close to an exhaust and breathes in.

LG John

Having personal experience of this I'd have to say that its a BAD comparison. The problem with fear and panic attacks is that willpower makes them worse setting up something of a spiral of decline. The harder you fight and the harder you resist the worse it becomes (adrenaline being pumped into the system).

What you need here is a whole different type of thinking and relaxing that is pretty much the exact opposite quality you'd have as a strong willed person.