phase 2 rails will not help in the slightest with top feed injectors..

get some pics of marks rails..

David

 

Found this on the net. APS Fuel Rail & Second Injector Set-up.

APS Fuel Rail

Conrad

NICE looking piece of kit, dont know the cost though???

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 10/30/2003 11:23:47 AM]

 

Spoke to Chris about them yesterday Conrad Does look like a nice setup.

Circa £500 for the kit although he did not have an exact price to hand. They are also in stock so it may be an easy solution

 

Does that include the new tumbler assemblies?????

 

Conrad, no such luck or Chris would have been forced to take my Visa card number yesterday

Having discussed this with someone much more knowledgeable than me it seems that the STi's do not have tumblers in their manifolds only the WRX's. Hope I have this right

Costs seem to be around £500 for each of the three parts, fuel rail kit 1, 2, & tumbler delete / twin injector units. Looks like there is a fair bit of machining involved in the tumbler deletes & the second fuel rail kit is supplied with Bosch 200cc injectors included so hence the price.

It would be pretty interesting to try the whole kit but possibly unnecessary if you can get a good mapper to provide a nice idle using 800cc injectors

I now have a set of OEM phase two, top feed rails to hand thanks to David at API Engines They are compact when compared to the side feed rails but there are quite a few bends in the soild tube which to one degree or another are flattened. I have to assume that enough fuel is getting through to easily supply the needs of a standard car. However, now that I have seen these I am convinced that I would like to replace mine when 400+ bhp is on the cards.

The APS kit looks like a very good alternative.

 

you could probably have all that stuff cnc machined / milled cheaper depending if your prepared to design it and tell an enginering shop what you want..

Theres no doubt their are nice rails though.. im just tight..



Mine are phase one rails that were lying around the garage... altered with a hacksaw..

I then turned down a -6 to something or other coupling.. to make it slot inside the rail.. (not reducing down from the -6!!)

This was then tig welded around.. (in hindsight I would braze it on next time)

Cost Nil..

(Injectors are 850cc, Wiring loom is 100% custom by me!)

Big thanks to www.mendahose.co.uk for supplying -6 fittings (made by parker in case you care) and making the braided hoses.. and also big thanks for changing the fitting on the left at very short notice... (Fouled on Garrett turbo)

** Also ensure that if you go for eight injectors, be sure your ecu can drive them.. also pay attention to high and low impediance ones!
David


[Edited by David_Wallis - 10/30/2003 7:37:54 PM]

 

David, nice job as usual and the price was perfect

If I could "borrow" the APS kit I'm sure I could machine the necessary parts and then use alternative braided hoses. I need a cunning plan...

I already have two sets of high impedence, top feed injectors 500's & 650's but it looks like I will need some a little larger to feed the habit of acceleration addiction

 

Version 2 (don't ask about the first )of my rails are coming along nicely. I'll try and get some pictures taken for tomorrow.

 

1050cc of fuel should do..

 

If you're willing to do some work I still reckon these are a good deal.

Richard



[Edited by dowser - 10/30/2003 8:42:38 PM]

 

Dowser, The Perrin ones aren't available for Sti's, Its going to be Crimbo before there ready.

How Ironical after I posted the link to the APS fuel rail that Scoobymania phoned me and that I have a problem with my fuel rail! 1/2 bar pressure drop between one side and the other. Bypassed various parts and its turned out to be one link pipe. Whole bloody inlet manifold, alternator, air con compressor has to come off and mapping has stopped. Bloody car is turning into a nightmare May has well uprate the rails while its all off.

Conrad

 

they are sti rails are they not? whats the thing they are bolted to?? that wrx??

David

 

The Perrin picture is a WRX manifold. The APS ones are on an STi manifold and are available. Sadly David I dont have the time or the tools to do the work myself.

 

cool.. send me a mail, I have some pics to give you inspiration for that inlet setup..

David

 

Sorry, didn't see STi in your profile. But what's difference between STi and WRX?

Perrin certainly make it for the classics. Crap pipework though (IMHO ).

Richard

 

 

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...hreadid=422495

 

Not exactly sure what the difference is. I spoke with there technical department and they just said not for the new age STi until crimbo but its ok for WRX. Maybe its a demand thing, pipe size or something.

David I'll fire the mail to you now.

Conrad

 

mmm pub time

 

Enjoy the pint David, what's the relavence of the picture and the NASIOC Thread which basically says stick with the stock ones???



Conrad

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 10/30/2003 9:33:01 PM]

 

Just been doing the sums and I have an extra 22% of fuel in my rail and nice free flowing fittings very similar (maybe a very slightly tighter curve) than the ones on the righthand end of Davids (picture on page 2 of this thread). Obviously am converting to parallel feed but don't know whether to use an FSE pressure reg (they have a nice feature of over compensating when boost is initailly applied to help avoid onset of det) and simply putting a T piece in the lines to get the split. Or using a Nismo pressure reg (which is physically the same size as subaru standard) and milling a block to house it and split the fuel into 2 feeds. The nismo reg holds a more even pressure, but doesn't do the over compensation bit. hmmmmmmmmmmm decisions, decisions,,,,,,,,,

 

Cord, what about the SX regulator, there a neat little unit???

 

I use an sx reg.. with a -6 feed to each rail from each side.. it also has a return on the bottom.. I also stripped it and machined a gauge port into the side too..

David

 

Read through the NASIOC thread David linked above.

Can anyone explain why there can be too much fuel in the hose and rails and how this would cause difficulties with mapping? I understand that increasing the fuel pressure or IDC's would provide too much fuel to the cylinders but can't fathom out how a slightly larger rail or hose would create a problem

 

only to temp..

 

If there is to much fuel in the rail it can lead to hot start problems (Fuel in the rail gets to hot to ignite) But a couple of good cranks will refresh the fuel within the rail so not really an issue. The problem with having too little or to much fuel within the rail is the speed it takes to alter its pressure. For example if you had a sealed thimble full of fuel you only need to add a tiny amount to up it's pressure, where as if you had a sealed lake windemere full of fuel you need to add a vast amount to up it's pressure by the same amount. This works both for and against you, ie. when you remove an amount of fuel from your thimble (injector opening) then the pressure drop is fairly large. Remove the same amount from your lake and the pressure drop will be tiny.
The key to it is getting the correct amount in your rail so that your pressure can rise rapidly with your boost, but also not fall off when your injectors are opening. There is loads of other stuff to take into account aswell but that is just a basic explanation.

Sorry if it's too basic but my granny alsways needed lessons on egg sucking.

 

Cord, your basic explanation suits my level of knowledge perfectly and Granny should be old enough to know that there is more than one way to suck an egg...maybe using a hybrid turbo..

I took a few pictures of the OEM TF rails tonight which I am happy to e-mail; if anyone's interested they can contact me through the address in my profile.

 

Do you know what you are going to be altering on the new rails? If you need any egg sucking tips feel free to send us a copy of the pics and what mods you have planned.