Cord

Took my fuel rails off the other day and realised the're a bit poo, I don't really think they hold enough fuel. Does anybody make uprated rails (had a quick unsuccessful search on t'internet) or am i just gonna have to make my own?

The Fixer

Cord, I think most people just end up splitting the lines with either a feed to each bank of cylinders or a feed to each cylinder. I saw a nice set-up somewhere on the internet, a block mounted on the bulkhead with fuel feed in and goodridge hoses to each cylinder, apparently eliminates fuel starvation problems at a later date to the fourth cylinder. Couldnt see where the return lines were though, obviously out of sight.

Conrad

[Edited by RSVR Racer - 10/20/2003 6:10:35 PM]

David_Wallis

dont hold enough fuel?

I use phase 1 rails with a -6 fitting on each end.. each rail is fed with 1 pump.

pics are in my thread..

David

David_Wallis

that sounds like the perrin (sp) or vishnu setup..

Over kill..

If your really being fussy you should change to a top feed injector then in theory the injector its self isnt interrupting the fuel flow..

David

beryllium

perrin and vishnu supply only for newage.
is it your 's?

Cord

Have started machining myself some new ones
Have upped the internal diameter of the linking pipe between the injectors from 12mm to 15mm and also am increasing the diameter of the body of the injector housing from just below the top large diameter seal from 26mm to 28mm. Haven't worked out % increase in fuel capacity yet but it should be a big jump, something in the region of 40%.

David_Wallis

would be very interested in seeing some pics??

David

dowser

Perrin rails look nice, but I'd replace the crap pipework....t-piece feed from pump is closer to one bank than the other.....

I'm (my mechanic!) modifying the stock rails to improve flow and make parallel feed tidy looking...

Richard

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Right 3rd time lucky on trying to sort the link

Nice fuel rails here:-

NASIOC Fuel Rail Thread

I would love a go at this but being a simpleton I could do with a diagram or sketch particularly of the injector housing / billet rails.
Perrin, MRT, etc all seem to use push-on hose fittings which reduces the attraction to use their product. Can anyone provide more technical info?

[Edited by Callum Ferguson - 10/18/2003 7:43:20 PM]

David_Wallis

mine use -6 fittings (bolt on)

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Hi David,
Did you not weld -6 ends onto the solid rails as per Trout's picture on the new 22B thread? Nothing wrong with doing this I just fancied machining up some billet ones to go along with the -6 fittings & I wouldn't know where to start with a welder. Getting a look at an aftermarket set - phase 2 - would be very useful but being a tight Scot I don't want to pay $400+ just for a look

David_Wallis

lol.. yeah thats what I did.. I think phase 1 rails flow better than phase 2..

well.. my rails are larger dia, than the -6 fitting anyway

David

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Thanks David

I think it's time to speak nicely to David at API to beg a set of OEM rails for some dimensions to get me started. I don't fancy having my car off the road for as long as it might take me to machine the rails & the distribution block.

Yvonne already wants me to give her a picture of the car to remind her what it looks like in one piece LOL.. women.. just don't understand..

David_Wallis

LOL...

however.. what basis do people reckon the rails dont flow enough..

if you work out the flow through the pipe diameter and the given pressure and what the injectors can consume then I would have thought it was more than sufficent..

fancy rails look nice... look at mark's rails on his engine.. in stainless

But are they necessary? (his were due to 8 top feed 503cc iirc injectors)

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

I am not knowledgeable enough to know whether they would flow enough or not so can't disagree with you. Just fancied doing a parallel rail conversion but making a nice job of it with poser type red/blue -6 fittings to go with the pretty SX reg

Stainless tube for high pressure applications is no problem as I work with it often...as long as it's not a 316 which makes me

Now I wonder if I can persuade Mark to send me some close ups? No doubt about it that his engine bay looks VERY smart Haven't seen it recently but last time I spoke to him about it he reckoned the pictures I had looked untidy

David_Wallis

adam will also have some pics of his rails..

David

The Fixer

Cord, any pics of these fuel rails yet m8'y

Mark A

iTrader: (1)

David

I'm not doubting your vast knowledge but I was under the impression it was better to switch to phase 2 rails.
I've seen your fuel rails and I like the fact you get rid of that horrible bend where the pipe must narrow by 50%. Being a crap MIG novice I'm hoping that somebody might be able to fabricate so ends similar to the ones supplied with the FSE reg.

Mark

PS Any news on the "thermo isolator" ?

David_Wallis

sorry not made them yet.. I cant get at the router table at the moment..

This week!

David_Wallis

Phase 2 rails may be better, however when you look at all the bends on the pipes they 'could' be restrictive..

however phase 1 rails flow more than my -6 fitting..

David

Cord

Sorry no pictures yet, I haven't finished 'em. The main reason I am making new rails isn't for better flow but for a greater capacity of fuel to be stored within the rail under pressure. This helps keeps the pressure up when the injectors open.
Callum, what dimensions are you after?

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Cord, many thanks for asking

David at API Engines has very kindly posted me a spare set of Phase 2 rails today. This should allow me to get the basics right like lengths, mounting hole spacings & injector recess dims. It may easily be enough but if it's OK I will give you another shout if I get stuck.

I would still be very interested in pictures once you're finished

cheers,
callum

edited because my English gets even worse after a glass of local water

[Edited by Callum Ferguson - 10/22/2003 11:00:16 PM]

Cord

No problem, yes i will post some pics when finished. How are you making your new ones, and what changes are you making to them?

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

My main reason for wanting to make new ones was to achieve parallel rails. TBH if Vishnu still offered the -6 kit pictured on their website I would just have bought it as I am probably better occupied making things on a lathe or mill that I get paid for!

I machine a bit of 7075 & HE 30 and a lot of 416 stainless so this is likely to be the material source. No radical development plans just to copy what works. I like the fuel distribution block on the NASIOC thread and as the guy won't reply to my e-mails I will have a go at something like that then use braided hose to the rails.

Any info is very welcome as I am completely ignorant of this type of work - just enthusiastic

Cord

Don't know what the STI7 rails are like (Am I right in thinking they are top feed, unlike my side feed phase 2?) But more than likely you will want to increase the diameter of the linking bar between the 2 injectors, so that there is a larger volume of fuel within the rail. This can lead to hot start problems (the fuel within the rail getting hot) but with a couple of cranks you can get fresh cold fuel pumped into the rail anyway so not a big problem.

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

STi 7 injectors are top feed. Fortunately, I have the original injectors to hand, I'm running 650's for now, so I can offer these up to the OEM rails that David is sending.

What I don't know is whether the Phase 2 rails for both types of injector, top or side feed, are the same. Apolgies if this sounds stupid - I freely admit to lacking knowledge

Cord

The rails are different, side feed sit in a fuel bath within the rail, top feed sit inbetween the rail and the inlet manifold.

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info - that could create a small problem...LOL
More research obviously required. Anyone have pictures of or access to Phase 2 TF rails .. he says hopefully?

Looks like the inlet manifold will be coming off again sooner than I expected!

Cord

If it's any consolation the top feed rail should be less complicated when it comes to making a new one!!!!!!

Callum Ferguson

iTrader: (1)

Anything to speed the process up is welcome
More info on progress to follow. Please keep me up to date with yours.