20V UR Quattro.
14 February 2003, 09:47 AM
#64
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Jeremy
The on-limit handling of a UrQ does depend on which model you have.
Blackscooby and I work together and for a year or so both had 'proper' quattros. His was a WR 10V with 50:50 torque split, mine a MB 10V with the later Torsen diff (same as the 20V cars). The Torsen diff cars transfer torque from front to back as required so if you start to lose the back the power goes to the front and pulls you through the corner. This is where you get the stability. The on-limit handling was very different as we found out doing track days. The WR cars are more prone to understeer but as Blackscooby use to enjoy proving to me, the use of a quick lift then plenty of power in the Torsen diff car fires you out of corners with a hint of oversteer. Great fun.
Happy days.....
The on-limit handling of a UrQ does depend on which model you have.
Blackscooby and I work together and for a year or so both had 'proper' quattros. His was a WR 10V with 50:50 torque split, mine a MB 10V with the later Torsen diff (same as the 20V cars). The Torsen diff cars transfer torque from front to back as required so if you start to lose the back the power goes to the front and pulls you through the corner. This is where you get the stability. The on-limit handling was very different as we found out doing track days. The WR cars are more prone to understeer but as Blackscooby use to enjoy proving to me, the use of a quick lift then plenty of power in the Torsen diff car fires you out of corners with a hint of oversteer. Great fun.
Happy days.....
14 February 2003, 10:04 AM
#66
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The WR cars are more prone to understeer but as Blackscooby use to enjoy proving to me, the use of a quick lift then plenty of power in the Torsen diff car fires you out of corners with a hint of oversteer. Great fun.
Happy days.....
Happy days.....
dominicm ~ hmmmmm nice.... I want one.
Dear Santa....
[Edited by Blackscooby - 2/14/2003 10:05:38 AM]
14 February 2003, 10:09 AM
#67
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I don't know if anyone can remember when Vikki and Tiff had a race in an EVO VI and a sport quattro!!!
Tiff was his usual sideways so not the fastest way, but Vikki beat him comprehensively in the EVO and I do know that a Sport quattro is quite a bit quicker than the standard ur quattro with or without a torsen diff!!!
If anyone fancies a meet to have a bit of a back to back I can bring the 20V quattro along!!!
Dom.
Tiff was his usual sideways so not the fastest way, but Vikki beat him comprehensively in the EVO and I do know that a Sport quattro is quite a bit quicker than the standard ur quattro with or without a torsen diff!!!
If anyone fancies a meet to have a bit of a back to back I can bring the 20V quattro along!!!
Dom.
14 February 2003, 11:30 AM
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I remeber that test. I also remeber the Sport quattro kicking the Evo's **** off the line!
The Sport Quattro was let down by it's piddly tyres and brakes. The perfectly flat track was to the Evo's favour in my opinion.
The Sport Quattro was let down by it's piddly tyres and brakes. The perfectly flat track was to the Evo's favour in my opinion.
14 February 2003, 05:24 PM
#71
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Audinut, your right the torsen car is yet more stable. In fact the torsen set up on most audis seems to be a step up from Impreza's.
Dom,
To my mind, and the main point I have been trying to make on this thread is that the Quattro may very well NOT be the best track tool. And indeed it probably is not the best rally car either. Its simply not nimble enough. Its a little too big, and the engine is too far forward.
BUT what I am saying is that as a road car it has some specific strengths which many (including many UrQ owners themselves) are not aware of. And these are that it can cover ground on challenging roads about 90% as well as Impreza's and Evo's, but when grip is lost, something about its overall balance comes into play that lets its driver lift-off or slow down a bit and have the car come back into grip/balance quickly. And this is important on real roads because often there is no room or circumstance to do a controled oversteer maneuver as one would have to in less stable cars. Actually I also wonder if a rear-engine car like the Carrera 4 might not also have some sort of ability like the quattro but in reverse.
It would be very interesting to do a back to back in some place like Wales, with competent drivers aboard.
Dom,
To my mind, and the main point I have been trying to make on this thread is that the Quattro may very well NOT be the best track tool. And indeed it probably is not the best rally car either. Its simply not nimble enough. Its a little too big, and the engine is too far forward.
BUT what I am saying is that as a road car it has some specific strengths which many (including many UrQ owners themselves) are not aware of. And these are that it can cover ground on challenging roads about 90% as well as Impreza's and Evo's, but when grip is lost, something about its overall balance comes into play that lets its driver lift-off or slow down a bit and have the car come back into grip/balance quickly. And this is important on real roads because often there is no room or circumstance to do a controled oversteer maneuver as one would have to in less stable cars. Actually I also wonder if a rear-engine car like the Carrera 4 might not also have some sort of ability like the quattro but in reverse.
It would be very interesting to do a back to back in some place like Wales, with competent drivers aboard.
14 February 2003, 05:34 PM
#72
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You're right, Torsen is a pretty sophisticated solution, superior IHMO to the rather agricultural Scooby setup. All Integrale's have Torsen - early 8valves with a slight FW bias, later 16v's and Evos (like mine) have a RWD bias. Steers on the throttle like a go-kart. Sublime.
Rob
Rob
17 February 2003, 11:48 AM
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Jeremy
I totally agree with your track comments. The Subaru is much better at changing direction than the Audi. A Scooby is more fun on the track as controllable slides all add to the fun. The Audi scores on fast wet roads when it feels so secure.
Dome,
Converting to a Torsen is probably not worth the hassle.
The original WR non-torsen cars were built until 1987 without significant change but the Torsen equipped MB 10V and 20V cars are more highly developed. In other words there are a lot more differences between a 10V WR and a 10V MB than just the diff itself.
If you want a fun quattro and cant afford a beauty like Doms 20V get a 1988/89 MB engined 10V. They have more torque than the early cars, (0-60 6.3 not 7.1), better brakes, torsen diff and sound better than the 20V. Best bit is they cost HALF the price of a 20V. 6 or 7 grand gets a nice one.
Cheers.
I totally agree with your track comments. The Subaru is much better at changing direction than the Audi. A Scooby is more fun on the track as controllable slides all add to the fun. The Audi scores on fast wet roads when it feels so secure.
Dome,
Converting to a Torsen is probably not worth the hassle.
The original WR non-torsen cars were built until 1987 without significant change but the Torsen equipped MB 10V and 20V cars are more highly developed. In other words there are a lot more differences between a 10V WR and a 10V MB than just the diff itself.
If you want a fun quattro and cant afford a beauty like Doms 20V get a 1988/89 MB engined 10V. They have more torque than the early cars, (0-60 6.3 not 7.1), better brakes, torsen diff and sound better than the 20V. Best bit is they cost HALF the price of a 20V. 6 or 7 grand gets a nice one.
Cheers.
18 February 2003, 07:14 PM
#79
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I believe that despite the outcome(the lancer won), the victory was clearly for Audi. They compared two cars with 15 years age difference. No many cars can do that well.
All these IMHO(to avoid flaming)
All these IMHO(to avoid flaming)
19 February 2003, 09:14 AM
#80
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I've taken some lovely piccies of my scooby and quattro, the only problem is I can't upload them due to my digital camera being unable to take pictures that are less than 200meg's!!!!
I will stick them through my software at home and try to reduce the resolution!!
I do think that we should be able to upload pictures larger then 200megs!
Moan over Dom.
I will stick them through my software at home and try to reduce the resolution!!
I do think that we should be able to upload pictures larger then 200megs!
Moan over Dom.
02 June 2003, 08:06 PM
#81
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I have a very rare 20V UR Audi Quattro which I might sale! It is a 1991 'J' reg, has done 50K and has a full service history. The car looks beautiful in Metallic black with grey leather, it has had a bare metal respray.
The car is totally standard and runs like a dream, I've never seen another 'J' plate.
What do you reckon it is worth?
Dom.
[Edited by dominicm - 2/6/2003 8:07:05 PM]
The car is totally standard and runs like a dream, I've never seen another 'J' plate.
What do you reckon it is worth?
Dom.
[Edited by dominicm - 2/6/2003 8:07:05 PM]
02 October 2003, 10:12 AM
#82
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Seems like there's a few quattro fans amongst us! IMO they were the car of the 80's and I always said I'd have one eventually, I brought mine from a specialist about 6 years ago and I have done about 20K in that time. The reason I am thinking about selling is that I don't get as much enjoyment out of driving her these days, my every day cars have got better and better, which makes the quattro feel less special!
I had the respray as the body work have picked up a few trolly dents and scratch's and had dulled. I knew it might effect the value, but I have no intention of selling it at the time!
Andy, I am after a RS4, drove a standard one last week and was quite impressed. I'm not too sure about the quattro for a PX, think I might keep her for another couple of years! Also the RS4 will be my company car!
If your interested I have a Jaguar XJR which is what I am replacing with the RS4, interested in a PX with that?
If not I'll love to have a look at your car as I might buy it outright!!!
Email me!
Dom.
and ur does mean original!
[Edited by dominicm - 2/10/2003 10:13:02 AM]
I had the respray as the body work have picked up a few trolly dents and scratch's and had dulled. I knew it might effect the value, but I have no intention of selling it at the time!
Andy, I am after a RS4, drove a standard one last week and was quite impressed. I'm not too sure about the quattro for a PX, think I might keep her for another couple of years! Also the RS4 will be my company car!
If your interested I have a Jaguar XJR which is what I am replacing with the RS4, interested in a PX with that?
If not I'll love to have a look at your car as I might buy it outright!!!
Email me!
Dom.
and ur does mean original!
[Edited by dominicm - 2/10/2003 10:13:02 AM]
02 November 2003, 05:30 PM
#84
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oh really? and i thought it was the same car.
i just thought that differences were:
The wings
The bumpers
The engine
The gearbox
The differentials
Some parts of the interior
The name
BTW, i think that the Ur Quattros have 2 doors(Coupe)
and are 4 wheel drive(Quattro).
I should also inform all the UrQuattro owners that greet me(and i greet them back)whenever they see me and i see them on the streets that my car is completely different from their cars and that they should stop greeting me.
Don't forget to tell the Impreza Sport Owners that their cars are completely different that the Turbo ones and that every time someone praises the Impreza Turbo, they should be unhappy.
Forgive me for feeling good everytime someone speaks about the bigger brother(cause that's what it is) of my car. After all not all of us make enough money to buy the real thing.
[Edited by XT - 2/11/2003 8:35:15 PM]
i just thought that differences were:
The wings
The bumpers
The engine
The gearbox
The differentials
Some parts of the interior
The name
BTW, i think that the Ur Quattros have 2 doors(Coupe)
and are 4 wheel drive(Quattro).
I should also inform all the UrQuattro owners that greet me(and i greet them back)whenever they see me and i see them on the streets that my car is completely different from their cars and that they should stop greeting me.
Don't forget to tell the Impreza Sport Owners that their cars are completely different that the Turbo ones and that every time someone praises the Impreza Turbo, they should be unhappy.
Forgive me for feeling good everytime someone speaks about the bigger brother(cause that's what it is) of my car. After all not all of us make enough money to buy the real thing.
[Edited by XT - 2/11/2003 8:35:15 PM]
02 November 2003, 07:21 PM
#85
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Sorry for being thick, but whats a WR quattro ?
I've heard of UR's coming with MB or WR engines. 2226cc 10v and the 2144cc 10v HUGE KKK turbo thing engine coded WR.
I also know there was THE one to have the 2226cc 20v, but can't remember the engine coding for that !
Ahhhh my dearly departed....
[Edited by Blackscooby - 2/11/2003 7:30:20 PM]
I've heard of UR's coming with MB or WR engines. 2226cc 10v and the 2144cc 10v HUGE KKK turbo thing engine coded WR.
I also know there was THE one to have the 2226cc 20v, but can't remember the engine coding for that !
Ahhhh my dearly departed....
[Edited by Blackscooby - 2/11/2003 7:30:20 PM]
