WRXrowdy

iTrader: (2)

I know that.

^Qwerty^

And it's not just antibodies that would stop you catching/developing it again. From what I've read, t cells are the bodies long term solution?

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Pretty much this. I think so many people believe in the Hollywood version; We get it and spread it everywhere. Have a jab, everyone's cured and the spread is stopped. We all live happily ever after.

Any infection relying on a host to allow it to multiply and spread can be carried by someone with immunity. Immunity just means that the person isn't really affected and the infection has less chance to multiply and spread. Just like that little throat tickle I had...it's a infection of something (likely just a common cold virus, but without a test, who knows), and in that short period that it's living and multiplying in my throat it can be spread as aerosol when I exhale to either be breathed in by passers by or falling onto contact surfaces, getting onto hands etc. I will be contagious. That continues until my immune system kicks in and gets on top of it, it could take a day or so or maybe a week.

The only difference of having immunity or not is the timespan of being contagious and that varies from person to person.

A vaccine isn't going to stop anyone from being contagious, but it should reduce the time they are contagious. The only major gain is the vulnerable shouldn't get too ill from it and maybe quarantine periods could be reduced.


Hygiene practices in current use really need to be clearly defined and put into law; Lack of general public cleanliness and lax cleaning regimes have been a very long time coming. Sad that it took a pandemic to realise this, and nobody should think a vaccine means a return to normal.

The mask/aerosol issue is something that is going to remain too but the blatant misunderstanding displayed everywhere makes it a pointless futility anyway; Maybe if someone did a eggy fart in the room and asked people a show of hands of who can smell it would give a better understanding of spread distances and the issues of staying in enclosed spaces; Only then it maybe within their level of comprehension.

Until that is properly addressed, the amount of carriers and therefore rate of mutations will carry on indefinitely, and until then regular vaccines and testing will be the 'new norm'. In order to slow/stop mutations we need to stop the carriers mingling, and for that to work that needs a collective social reform, proper understanding and a higher level of personal responsibility (yeah I know ).

IdonthaveaScooby

Just imagine how where we would be if people Had to pay 1500 a weekt to remain in a secure compound on their return to UK , from last MARCH

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Just watching Who wants to be a Millionaire....


is everyone tested before going into the studio? Because those 1ft separation screens are sending out totally the wrong message. Noticed the same on other shows too, but this one is with members of the public so not so easily seen as 'bubbles'.

WRXrowdy

iTrader: (2)

I would guess they would, they are doing tests for visitors to nursing homes that take half hour or so for result so something similar I would imagine. Clarkson had the virus recently.

RS_Matt

Lil lad can't wait for it to be over and cbeebies goes back on

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Tabloids (Sun, Metro, Huff etc.): "Jeremy Clarkson has revealed he battled coronavirus"

Clarkson on Twitter "Dear the newspapers. I didn't “ battle” Covid. I lay on my bed reading a book till it went away."


Whilst I'm on about the media's misrepresentation of facts, take a look at the BBC.....






Now let's look at the same data with Portugal and Belgium included:





Now tell me why it chooses to persistently ignore two EU countries that have/had issues on par with the UK? And also why the BBC's chart uses a averaging method that give higher numbers on the Y axis? Of course have emailed the Beeb on this when they last published this graph without Belgium when they had a case rate more than triple to that if the UK at the time...no reply, no changes made.



Also not widely publicised is Portugal's current death rate, which is pretty grim...higher than the UK at 2.07 per 100,000 and still rising

IdonthaveaScooby

Perhaps why brazil ( portugal ) entrants have been banned !


bolsanara policy of catching the virus as the best vacinne available ..

IdonthaveaScooby

Unbelievable , Australia has imposing quarantined travelers for a year- paid for

but it’ll impair our businesses apparently

BMWhere?

So, Boris has now reached his target of reducing the pensions deficit! That's 100,000 less pensions to pay

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

MSM obsessed with totals again (rather than rate of deaths and rate of spread); France, Italy and Russia are not far away from the 100k target either. And not even close to the USA (presently 409,890) or even the EU as a collective block (higher than the US at 448,248) both of which are worth highlighting.

Also worth highlighting is Belgium's cumulative deaths per capita at 180.9 per 100k. That makes the worst in the entire world! With a curve that is persistently higher than any other. Whereas the UK at 147.5 per 100k tracks close to most developed countries and has a curve following with them.

Curfews/lockdowns and vaccine roll out and effectiveness will make a difference to how these totals look in 12months from now. Not to say the UK is doing it right but plenty others are at times doing it wrong as well, be it previous, present or future.

The EU vaccine roll out is what should be the top headlines in UK media. Especially the dirty fight by MEPs to prevent export of vaccines.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Ahem, yes:

https://www.politico.eu/article/germ...horized-by-eu/



We know what he's hinting at. How dare the UK not have a shortage. #everymanforhimself

Maybe Boris ought announce a shortage as media subterfuge so we're not used as a scapegoat "dey tuk er vaciiiiiiines"

IdonthaveaScooby

I suspect drugs companies have always/always will sell to the highest bidder

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

Of course. Pseudo-socialism actively encourages it.

So long as it works in their favour. Otherwise they kick up a fuss. For example dumping of mega cheap solar panels from China. Decimating EU manufacturers, but some politicians actively encouraged it because their mandate was towards environmentalism and it allowed cheaper conversion to renewables.... Hence why use of solar in the EU (notably Germany) skyrocketed in the same period; They believed that allowing a product to be imported as cheap as possible was more important than protecting its home people (of which worked in those industries).

They like their bread buttered on both sides

BMWhere?

Firstly, the EU vaccine roll out argument has been front page news for the past two days, so it's not as if that story is being ignored by the MSM!

As for the death rates, I agree absolute numbers are not that important, but the general trends.

With regards to Belgium there are a number of factors to consider: 1. Belgium is a relatively small country and the smaller the population the less statistically significant it is for comparison. 2. Belgium has a very high population density, which of course make the spread of the disease harder to contain. 3. Belgium is pretty much putting every death in the country down to Covid. Get knocked over by a bus having tested positive for Covid 6 months ago and you'll probably get included in their Covid deaths count. 4. As the center of the EU, there are a lot of people regularly travelling to and from Brussels which also increases the chance of spreading the virus. Not that I'm saying Belgium doesn't have a serious Covid problem, but its probably not the best example to use to underplay the seriousness of the UK problem.

The main point that the MSM are (correctly) making with their reporting of the UK problems is that the UK has dealt with the virus extremely badly and continuously throughout the crisis! Looking here, sorting by the number of deaths per million population, the UK is in 3rd place behind Belgium and Slovenia. sort by deaths per million in the past 7 days and the UK is in 2nd place behind Portugal. In total number of cases and total number of deaths, the UK is 5th despite being a long way off being the 5th most populous country! You can't even claim that they were at least protecting the economy as the UK economy has been hit far harder than the countries that have handled the virus well, this chart shows the economic impact of Covid ranks the UK as 3rd worst behind Peru and Spain! The UK's handling of the virus has been nothing short of shambolic and saying "yeah but Belgium this and Portugal that" only serves to lessen the impact of the reporting. Yeah, the UK may not be the absolute worst, but we are near as dammit!!!

On the face of it, the UK does seem to be doing pretty well with vaccination, but that statistic is massively skewed because the government is using the provided second doses to boost the number of first doses administered, against the advice of the vaccine manufacturers! If you compare the number of people who have been fully vaccinated, the UK is not actually looking that hot!

Throughout the crisis, Boris has tried to avoid scrutiny claiming "now is not the time", but by avoiding scrutiny, he has avoiding learning from the mistakes with the fatal consequence of repeated the same errors over and over again! The earlier you scrutinise your mistakes, the earlier you can fix the problems and get on the right track! It's been long overdue that the media start to hold Boris to account for his mistakes. Nobody has said handling the virus is an easy job and you can certainly forgive the government for the early failures, but the grace period is long over and there are no excuses for continued bad decisions!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

OK, to reply 1) Yes, which is why raw totals should not be used for front page news. So it follows that a country with a higher population is typically going to to see a higher number of total deaths. However the significance of that is scalable if that country is on a similar economic footing and social trends; Smaller country, less hospitals, but comparable healthcare provisions. I say that it is therefore comparable.

2) Population densities is important; Most EU countries have lower densities to that of the UK and Belgium, this skews comparisons, so yes Belgium looks bad because of this, and so does the UK, when compared to France. Throw in Luxembourg which has a similar density to the UK but with 90.1 death per 100K and I'd say that is where the UK "should" be sitting at in its statistics, but even if the UK did have Luxembourg's death rate because of the UKs higher population we would still hit 100K deaths before Italy and France etc. So again the direct country comparisons used by the BBC in the graph I posted earlier only showing countries of lower densities is not showing the whole picture: It does not escape me that UK MSM persistently sidelines this when it should be highlighting it as means to educate that the higher the density the greater the risk and need for countermeasures. Other countries with similar or greater densities should also be included; Japan for instance has a much higher density, but much lower deaths both overall as well as totals and cases but very different social habits, we can learn from this. Its all well and good to go Boris bashing, its deserved, but its more productive to show the public how its done rather than how rubbish we are.

I mentioned earlier about personal responsibility and this has been severely lacking throughout. I'm not sure Boris has ever tried to make a horse drink water, good luck to him.

3) Sticking covid on death statistics is a issues affecting other countries too, including the UK. Which is why I'd prefer to use excess death rates as opposed to covid-death figures. The MSM in absence of reliable covid stats did initially use this at the start of the pandemic, and really it should continue to.

4) All the more reason to include it. When there previously has been calls to open boarders, create travel corridors and increase population mobility. Its not a means to downplay the UK, but to highlight the importance of controls and those to adhere to it, the UK as a island nation had the abilities to do what Belgium cannot. Again this needs to be highlighted by MSM on the importance of stricter and faster acting lockdowns.

I'm not in any shape or form using this as a means to down play the UK's handling, more so to highlight the situation is in a wider perspective. Data showed other countries, especially Belgium having case and death rates spiking long before the UK on two occasions, and its important to show this to learn from; If countries are spiking whilst the UK has relaxed measure inplace, it will follow suit. But because of high populations and densities it will be worse; including Belgium proves this. therefore stricter faster lockdowns were needed with no excuses. Again with the focus on not what we've done wrong, but what we need to do now and tomorrow; At the start of the pandemic there was a good research piece published forecasting case and death rates. I can't find it right now but the forecasts showed graphs predicting a lead-lag yo-yo of spikes as one country suffers exponential cases others that do not enact counter measure follow suit, the rate of which varied by population and density. And it is exactly what is happening, the MSM would serve us better to ram this point home to encourage more personal responsibility and autonomy.

To put this in a different context, back at uni I did alot of module work using Mathcad and Matlab centralising on damping of servo positioning systems using springs and pneumatics (electric servomotors would have been too easy). A basic task would be modelling a spring and damper system; With a large force (virus), on a strong spring (population) but not enough damping (countermeasures), the system oscillates up and down. The less damping the more it oscillates again and again and again. This is essentially what is happening in the UK and EU amongst other countries. Its having like a under damped spring/shock system. It needs more damping...lock downs, curfews, vaccines, travel restrictions. When in place and working, the oscillation reduces and everything settles down, but if its removed (lockdown easing) it will start oscillating again. Or the virus mutates into a more deadly variant (an increase in the force).

Alternatively, if you are familiar with these mathematical models you know we could just use a weaker spring instead....less people (which is why low density, low population countries fare better), but its not practical to cull half of the UK or Belgium population to stop a virus like we do with badgers and cows.

BMWhere?

I agree with a lot of that, but I'm not so sure it's the job of the MSM to educate us on the finer details. The media generally dumb down their stories to make them as simple and appealing to their reader base as possible. In the days of fast clicking internet media, long complex stories reduce clicks across the site and reduces ad revenue, so there are a number of reasons why the media do what they do.

I would personally argue that it's primarily down to the government to educate us on the important details and the media is there to convey that message and hold the government to account.

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

The problem is nobody really listens to government. And the media both TV, Tabloids and Online social platforms has more ability to shepherd the public in ways only a politician could dream of. Blair managed it for a bit during the period when the public were still charmed by him, but no other politician or advisor since.



Just look at poor old Chris Witty in the lockdown adverts, looking dishevelled, ill postured with his eyes darting across every line on the auto cue script. It's not working. You tell me with all the presenters the main TV channel have at their disposal, most could do it better. Hell, even get the UK's darling David Attenborough as the public lap up every word he says (that's not a slight btw; although if you ever used Bumble, 70% of profiles that include a ice breaker question about celebrity dinner guests Sir David is the man mentioned most).



Nobody can tell me MSM does not have public influence; It makes or breaks political careers more so than any election.



It can also lead by example; When we have Emily Morgan or Paul Brand casually swanning about a Covid ward with no mask, proclaiming how bad it is, then next day in the studio in coughing distance of Tom Bradbuy, ask what message does that give out about essential travel, distancing and taking sensible precautions? None. In fact it flies in the face of guidance given by airborne virus experts. And indeed take politicians to task but go further and show them how it should be done.



ITV fed us BLM 'adverts', and I'm sure Snoop Dogg peddling 'Just eat' every 10mins cost a pretty penny too. If these things didn't have public influence they wouldn't bother.

scunnered

iTrader: (1)

I tried to link a news story about the latest Chinese method of covid testing. The swear filter blocked it because of the word "a n a l".
They are taking swabs from the rear end because they say its more accurate than nasal and throat swabs.

BMWhere?

Chris Whitty is not a politician, he's an epidemiologist, actually someone who knows what they're talking about when it comes to epidemics, but he's clearly having to backup the government message although he obviously doesn't agree with it. In some ways I feel sorry for the bloke having to stand up there and defend a government that is clearly ignoring his advice. In the other hand, I have no respect for him for not speaking out and saying what he really thinks.

It's a really sad thing about UK politics that for the most cases the public just doesn't believe a word they say. A little humility and a willingness to own up to honest mistakes and put things right would go a long way in garnering public trust. Add to that the inconsistent message and flip-flopping on the advice, it's no wonder that the people do follow the advice.

It really is a lot state of affairs that people are more likely to follow the advice of a TV celebrity or footballer than to believe a word of the prime minister and the government.

The media is what it is and I expect very little from them and I certainly don't expect them to make up for the failings of the government. With the exception of the BBC the media companies are all businesses that understandably put their own interests first. Usually they are either pushing an agenda for or against the government based on their reader base and their reporting reflects such bias. The BBC should be better, but unfortunately they have to compete against everyone else to get the viewers and sadly prefer broad appeal over detailed reporting. Sadly, those of us who demand the details are a minority, so this is the reality of the current media landscape. Fortunately, the internet is there for those of us that want to get the finer details, we just have to be good at filtering out the take news!

ALi-B

iTrader: (1)

I'll have to eat my words a little as I've just seen the new government advert where Chris has been binned and they've ratcheted up the projected guilt factor by 100,000-fold with the "Look into my eyes" line typically used by charity adverts. Its better but it's gone too much the other way, laying on the guilt is what's needed, but it also needs to show how we spread an airborne virus.

TV is a business that's a granted, however with a mostly captive audience and a diminishing amount of new content to show them I think a little business sense would say that helping to get the message out to minimise future lockdowns is in their interests too. This is where personal responsibility is not just expected of individuals, but also of those that influence them too.

And sadly people listen to celebrities more than politicians. Not a new thing though, we had Mr-T telling us to just say no back in the day. And I'll guarantee more people worldwide would listen to what Dave Grohl has to say over Trump and Biden put together. The power of influence...hence the use of "influencers" on social media (and I honestly hate that term to the core). It's bonkers that a football player has more public influence on subsidised school meals than a teacher or dinner lady.

It is sort of starting to get through in some avenues though; An increased number of non-caucasians are refusing vaccines (and I'm using the term non-caucasian because after BLM etc I have no idea what descriptive word to use without causing someone somewhere to be offended because a middle aged caucasian dude used one of those words to describe them and I just don't want the aggro, sorry I digress).

My view is of that leading horses to water, but with mutations and possibility of reduction in vaccine effectiveness before roll out finishes (see Brazilian strain) it's imperative they reconsider. More people of influence are taking to social media to try and remedy this, good on them.

If we want detailed information from experts, those who want it can find it. As you say we have to better at filtering it as its not so easily found on tabloid websites of which they mix official data and dubious 'expert' accounts with a journalist opinion piece/summary. Not helped when google prefers to serves us this and cookies/signed in search ensures we are only fed content it wants to show based on our browsing rather than what we put in the search bar. It's sad that I have to use a private browser to evade GDPR pop-ups that are over-complicated to reject and non-mainstream search engines in order to get proper information sources as top results and not links to Daily Express articles or youtube vids of some random dude with too many crackpot opinions. Sometimes I think Google and badly implemented GDPR agreements actually broke the internet.

IdonthaveaScooby

Boris and team only a month late on SA variant pursual , track n trace

now randon testing fom a few post codes - what a farce government

andy97

iTrader: (1)

The Eu is now getting AZ extra vaccines from their plant in India. Albeit slowly, Eu robbing another countries vaccines again.

IdonthaveaScooby

France not even going to give it to +65 now

IdonthaveaScooby

We better hope they’ll let us have enough Pfizer for our over 80’s ....

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Daft premature political posturing before evidence.


Evidence coming in currently from AZ vaccine rollout shows it is effective for older people

IdonthaveaScooby

Not like being vaccinated make any difference anyway - since we’re banned traveling there already

Wurzel

iTrader: (1)

Why is it so complicated for these muppets to make a decision?

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-...iants-12207217

we're gonna do it, we're gonna do it we just aren't sure when we're gonna do it.

BMWhere?

RIP Capt. Sir Tom! A true inspiration, so sad that he died of Covid!

Here's hoping his legacy will be that some of the d*cks in the UK who break the Covid rules might start to take it a bit more seriously now (and that includes the government!)!