neil-h

Cheers That saved me a whole load of writing.

BMWhere?

Theresa May say there is no way she would call an early general election - is she sticking to that? You think that because the Lib they said they want a second referendum given no possibility of a general election, they HAVE to stick to that pledge now there is a general election on the cards? They can no say whatever they want in their election manifesto, including a second referendum or complete reversal of article 50! They can fight the election on any grounds they want to, its up to the people to decide who to vote for!

Incidentally, I'm also sure the Tory pledge of no rise to income tax and NI during the parliament term will no longer be in their manifesto, so you can be sure those tax rises that the government had to go back on in the last budget will be back on the cards for the Autumn budget if the Tories win again!

BMWhere?

Agreed! So it stands that MPs in remain seats should continue to back remain because its what their constituents want and not give in to party whips!

Tidgy

No, the majority have spoken and the choice was made. The vote is done and there is no changing that. At the time their role was to try to convince people how to vote.

Now that has happened their job is to get the best deal they can for their constituents. Spending time trying to block whats is fixed does nothing to aid there constituents and just wastes the limited time available which could well mean a worse deal is achieve so there actions will negatively affect their constituents.

neil-h

Never changed you're mind? Maybe realised something wasn't such a bright idea after all?

Tidgy

The vote happened, accept it. I keep hearing people say o lots of people have change there mind, yet i don't know anyone who has?

But it's all irrelevant. Accept the majority decision and work it, not fight it.

jonc

It is highly doubtful that the Lib Dems are able to do anything to stop Brexit since in order to reverse the triggering of Article 50 it would require a majority Parliamentary vote like the vote that invoked it. If the Lib Dems are going to campaign on reversing Brexit, they are most certainly going to lose the election and lose what little seats they have in Westminster against a growing support for leaving the EU. And if the Lib Dems do change their minds, well then they're no better than the Tories.

Whilst we derive some enjoyment in discussing the duplicitous nature of politics, let's stick with reality; the Lib Dems won't be doing any of the things you've mentioned. I seriously doubt the electorate will have any appetite for another referendum on the EU after a General Election.

BMWhere?

To do anything, the Lib Dems would require a clear majority win in the general election in order to be sure to get a bill passed by parliament, so you're right, it's extremely unlikely that they will be able to block Brexit, although not totally impossible!

There was a Woman from Leeds interviewed on the news last night, she voted to leave but said that things were getting more expensive now and people were changing their minds about Brexit, so she would probably vote for Lib Dems! I don't know how widespread those feelings are, but I'm sure there are more than a few families across the country starting to feel the squeeze of late!

The main point though, is up to now, all the statements about "accepting the will of the people" and all that were made on the basis of no chance of a second referendum or election. Similarly, the public acceptance of Brexit was somewhat on the basis of there is nothing you can do about it now, we just have to accept it. Now with a general election in June, we've got a whole new ball game - there is now something we can do about it! Over the next seven weeks, people will start to think again as we now essentially have a vote on the kind of Brexit we want, including no Brexit!

Make no mistake, this election is only going to boil down to Brexit policy because its by far the biggest decision that's going to affect the country for generations! Health, Education and the other standard topics pale somewhat into insignificance and can anyway be addressed in the next parliament post Brexit whereas Brexit is a one time only thing! In some ways, its a very good move for public acceptance of Brexit - The referendum was really too close to call and has left the public divided and Theresa May can say "its time to pull together" all she want's, the fact is half the country are not happy with the result and certainly don't want the kind of hard Brexit she is pushing for. Now we essentially have a chance to vote for the kind of Brexit we get and I think people will be much more accepting of the result of this election than they were for the non binding referendum full of lies (on both sides) with no clear view of what Brexit meant and being enacted by an unelected prime minister!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

The wee mad woman is throwing her party into the mix.


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...at-passed.html

Tidgy

I hope the SNP are going to take a bloody nose on this one. And throwing her hat in with labour just shows how desperate she is.

SNP have everything to loose, and nothing to gain, well 3 seats only lol

BMWhere?

So looks like we CAN expect Theresa May to take part in the TV debate then

Martin2005

and you believe this?

neil-h

Why? If there was a democratic option to allow you to overturn something you believe is fundamentally wrong for the country, wouldn't you take it?

Tidgy

it was voted on and a choice was made. you can't just call a revote till you get the result you want. It was perfectly clear it was a one vote only deal.

We live in a democracy, the majority spoke, stop trying to force your minority ways on people.

p.s. that last sentence was a bit tounge in cheeky lol

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Let's hear more of these comments. It will be the end of Labour, who would be blamed on breaking up the UK.

We already know what is the most likely outcome, so it's irrelevant. The Tories will have an increased majority, how big, who knows.

Lots of northern Labour MPs are already stating they won't run for re election in fear of being beaten. So they know the local feelings towards them.

Tidgy

biggest question is def gonna be scotland and if SNP can hold or will loose ground.

BMWhere?

In a democracy, nothing is ever a done deal! We voted in a referendum 40 years ago to join the EU! By your logic, we shouldn't have had the leave referendum because it was decided 40 years ago and you should live with it! Anything can be overturned and changed if there is enough public demand for it!

This majority you speak of was a very tiny majority. Its fair to say that the Brexiteers wouldn't have given up if the vote had gone the other way by a similar margin, and so they shouldn't and neither will or should the remainers! In a democracy, you might have to accept a decision, but you don't have to give up your fight to change it! It might take 40 years to change, it might take a year (e.g. council tax), but no decision is ever final in a democracy

Tidgy

and thats where your wrong, we never voted to join the EU, we voted to join a trade agreement.

A majority of 1million +, majority is 1 vote, so it wasn't even a tiny majority.

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Edited for you.
The UK hasn't left yet, you don't know how great it will be to be out of the EU so let's wait 40 years, come back and make an informed decision

BMWhere?

What we joined has certainly changed over the years. It's been shaped and changed in accordance to the needs of the UK and the other member states as determined by each members respective elected governments, but fundamentally its still what we joined 40 years ago! But its fundamentally because things change over time, that no decision should ever be permanent, be it the decision to join the EU or indeed the decision to leave it!


You're right, I don't know, but I'd personally rather not take the risk in finding out! It's also my democratic right to think that way and to campaign to change public opinion

neil-h

How do you know it'll be great?

andy97

iTrader: (1)

Attitude. Relish the change and freedom

Tidgy

Eh? it's nothing like what was voted on 40 years ago. it was a pure trade deal back then, nothing to do with political alignment etc.

Martin2005

If it was just a trade deal, then why did we need a referendum?

BMWhere?

Correct, but it was the foundation stone that has become the EU of today and the UK had a bigger say in making it that way than many of the other smaller members! Nothing has ever been forced upon us as we have always held a veto!

Tidgy

No idea, all i can tell you was thats what the original vote was about.

Tidgy

A trade deal is a very different kettle of fish to a political alignment/agreement.

Martin2005

Clearly it was not.

Martin2005

Actually we never voted to join either. We voted to stay in.

BMWhere?

Not entirely! It was always the intention from the beginning to create a single common trade area where everyone was equal. So, for example, there could never be government subsidies to a given sector in one country and not in other countries - the common agriculture and fisheries policies are the obvious examples here of how political alignment and a central authority are required to manage sector subsidies across the bloc. Therefore a certain level of political alignment was certainly required in the original membership agreement. The agreement initially only covered certain trade sectors, but it was always the intention to expand it to all sectors (or as many as possible) once political alignment in each sector could be achieved. Obviously, the more sectors which are included as well as the more countries that join the union, the more complicated everything becomes and the greater the need for a central regulatory authority.

Whilst the original idea was only to create a common trade area, many of the subsequent changes have been motivated by a desire to facilitate ease of trading between countries. Open borders so you can move goods between countries without lengthy and costly customs checks. A single currency to avoid costly currency exchange charges, to provide price stability as well as to ease price caparison, benefiting both consumers and businesses. Even freedom of movement of people was about making it easier and cheaper for companies to find skilled workers that just had the added bonus of allowing retired Brits to go and live in sunny Spain! Even common workers rights or health and safety legislation are primarily aimed at creating a level playing field for trading so that companies in one country can't lower their costs by not having to meet the same HS&E standards or forcing their workers to work longer hours with the threat of the sack if they take a day off with the flu!

The problem if you have such a free trade agreement as was always envisaged without the necessary political alignment, is that companies will just up sticks and move to the cheapest country to operate in and nobody else can compete. Even with the political alignment, many of the big companies do this anyway - take Cadbury (Kraft) moving production to Poland for example, or many of the car manufacturers opening plants in Eastern Europe. Without the political alignment, this would be happening a lot more and with much smaller companies!