andy97

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=stevebt;11933947 they just need to stop being idiots and just accept the world needs migration.[/QUOTE]

Migration is needed , but not uncontrolled mass migration. The Tories have made a shrewd move and hopefully will squash the naysayers

neil-h

And what happens if after the election we end up with a pro remain government with a greater majority than that of the Brexit vote? Democracy got us into this mess and it can get us out again.

BMWhere?

Not forgotten, just poll results when there is no consideration of an election are very different from poll results with an actual election and then the fact that poll results of late are hugely innacurate! Give it a couple of weeks when the parties have laid their grounds, and the polls may be very different!


It was also the same with the post-war immigration in the UK in the 50's & 60's. People are afraid of change and things they don't understand. People may have different skin colour and different languages, but in the end, we're all made of the same stuff and have the same basic needs and instincts! The fear is irrational, but never the less, its a human instinct!

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

Conservatives will get massive gains as many ukip will vote for Tories to keep labour out
Unfortunetly I predict ukip will slip 3/4 % as many casual voters think that ukip job is done
And also Paul nuttle hasn't the character if Nigel

Arran banks will be waiting on the wing with his new five star movements to get a many dissolutioned ukip voters

Dim Tim will pick up lots more votes with his anti brexit stand

dpb

More chocabloc election grandstanding bull****e news coverage , incase you were bored already
can hardly wait

Martin2005

So here we go again.


Apparently this is the 'Brexit Election'. Not sure where that leaves people like me? I don't want Brexit, but could never vote for Labour under Corbyn, and there's nothing the Liberals currently stand for I support (apart from their stance on Brexit). So i'll end up holding my nose and voting Tory.


Therefore we are going to end up with a government claiming a resounding endorsement of their stance on Brexit, probably with a 100+ majority created by somewhere around 40% of the vote.


When are our politicians going to try and speak to the MAJORITY of people who are completely disenfranchised by what's happening?


The one thing I'm really looking forward to is seeing those idiots from Momentum on election night trying to rationalise what's just happened and hopefully grasping the scale of the disaster they've inflicted upon the Labour Party

andy97

iTrader: (1)

The Majority were heard in the referendum and the government has acted as they wished, to leave the EU.

Martin2005

Yes indeed. However 17 million out of 64 million isn't exactly licence to carry on regardless.

neil-h

See this exactly why I'm planning on voting Lib Dem. As far as i see it Labour are pretty screwed, so the Liberals are probably the best chance we have of clawing back something sensible from Brexit. God only knows what else they stand for but at this point I don't think it matters.

Funkii Munkii

More fool the idiots that didn't vote then but now feel they should have a voice

urban

iTrader: (1)

Ha, so its not just me then.

She's like one of those nodding scooby doo toys

jonc

Anyone who thinks that by voting for any party other than the Tories will mean Brexit is averted are clearly deluded. The Prime Minister was a pro remainer and all the parties backed the triggering of Article 50 by massive majority. Brexit is pretty much a certainty as no party will go against the democratic right of the people who voted in the referendum. Who we vote for in the next GE will determine who will negotiate on behalf of the UK to get the best deal and unfortunately the other parties have nothing substantive to offer. Labour want a "soft" Brexit which would mean the UK would have partial membership but none of the negotiating powers we currently have and still pay in to the EU coffers, the Lib Dems will commit us to never ending referendums on the deals they come back with from the EU.

Let's be clear, this General Election not a proxy for second EU Referendum. I don't like the mess that Cameron has created, but democracy has spoken we have to suck it up!

jonc

It'll be interesting to see what Sturgeonwill base her campaign on since this General Election is touted as the "Brexit election". She can't campaign on anti-Brexit as losing seats on that campaign would mean losing support her "mandate" for a second Independence referendum since the who premise of second referendum is based the "material change" of being taken out of the EU. With that in mind possibly also ruling out a campaign based on Independence for Scotland. Support for the SNP is declining and I see it declining further based on her record on domestic policies outside her Independence ambition. I guess this is why the SNP are choosing to abstain from the Commons vote for a General Election.

neil-h

So what if the winning party commits to withdrawing the invoking of article 50? Said party would've been elected democratically, so democracy would've spoken again...Mathematically it's possible.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

But unlikely.

jonc

But no party will campaign to withdrawing the invocation of Article 50, all parties voted with a majority to invoke only a few weeks ago! Not only that, to withdraw would make a complete mockery of UK democracy.

Turbohot

More I hear about it, more I understand that this opportunistic move by TM is blatantly directed towards ruining the opposition Labour (already in shambles) even further. This GE is not to benefit the country and country's people, but to diminish the opposition. Any reasons that TM gives for throwing this random move don't make me buy her case, because Brexit would have progressed alright despite this GE. I suppose if the GE are left to be held after two years as expected, and if the final deals with the EU turn out to be sh7t, then of course it would have weakened Tories and strengthened Labour and Strurgeon With her agenda.

This Tory move is not to benefit the country's people other than the party politics, therefore my vote is not going to the Tories. My vote will go to the losing Labour; just to keep the strong opposition alive.

jonc

I don't think the GE is to ruin Labour, they are doing that pretty well themselves and the polls show this and thus there would be little to gain for such a big risk. I think it is more to do with reducing the SNP's majority and increasing Tory seats in Scotland and diminish the SNP's mandate for another Independence referendum. Also given the end of Brexit negotiations would be near the time of the next scheduled General Election, I think it would be too much for any Government to handle both the finalising of the Brexit negotiations and starting a campaign for the 2020 General Elections. By holding a General Election now would mean the next scheduled elections would take place 2022 giving more time and focus to complete the Brexit negotiations.

Tidgy

I don't expect a major swing away from the SNP, although i'll happily be wrong. Their the UKIP of scotland, one policy 'independence, independence, independence' at the cost of everything else which most scots seem to have bought.

I hope on hope i'm wrong and people see through wee jimmy crankie for what she is, but i don't think it will happen.

Tidgy

you mean you didn't realise why she suddenly called an election straight away?

While i agree its more about building on an advantage they have, having a stable government through the process will help to stablise some of uncertainty that a switch in governments mid way through negotiations/withdrawl would have caused. That isn;t a bad thing at all and why the pound jumped on the news.

neil-h

You really aren't getting it are you, democracy works both ways. Revoking article 50 can be done just as democratically as invoking it.

Turbohot

It's very obvious that this move negatively affects SNP as well.

Your last line '...focus to complete the Brexit negotiations' is one of the excuses that TM has. I don't buy it.

This is the woman who refused the possibility of GE after Cameron was gone and when she was stuck like an unelected doll on the PM seat. Then, it was her who said that it was 'not the right time for GE' due to the 'country going through Brexit'. Now a U-turn on that with such a rush for GE!

Sorry, I don't buy any of her nonsense on this June GE proposal.

Turbohot

It smelt anyway, and therefore I called it 'smart' meaning 'shrewd'; like many did. I now mean that the more I smell it, the more it stinks. Hope this is clear.

You are entitled to your reasoning and your supportive argument, and glad that the pound has jumped.

jonc

No, it's you that isn't getting it! Like I said, no party is going to campaign to revoke Article 50 in the GE, that is pretty much guaranteed since they all voted to invoke it a few weeks ago. If they then reverse Article 50 and stop the UK from leaving the EU, that goes against what UK voted for. That is not democracy!

BMWhere?

No they didn't! Parliament voted with a majority, but not all parties! Lib Dems and SNP have consistently voted against triggering article 50!

Tidgy

Good reason to vote to trigger it in itself that lol

BMWhere?

Just to prove the point...
http://www.businessinsider.de/a-comp...17-2?r=UK&IR=T

Incidentally, the two Lib Dems who didn't vote against the bill, actually abstained, so they also didn't vote for it!

In any case, regardless of how they voted in the past, as Theresa May has just proved, MPs are entitled to change their minds. The Lib Dems are more than entitled to run their GE campaign with the manifesto pledge to reverse article 50 and given they blocked the vote in the first place, they're also being consistent. If the public back them, then they would have a mandate from the public to reverse article 50 (assuming it can be reversed!). That IS democracy! I doubt they will succeed, particularly without proportional representation, but democratically it's a possibility!

jonc

Ok, your right, my mistake, I should say a Westminster majority. But Lib Dems have already said they respect the results of the referendum and the will of the people, so even if the Lib Dems do get in (highly unlikely), they will not go against the results of the referendum but subject the UK to another referendum(s) on the deal(s) they negotiate. SNP will also respect the results as it gives them the "material change" to campaign for an independent Scotland.

BMWhere?

Don't forget that during the referendum campaign the vast majority of MP, including a majority of Conservatives, supported remain! The fact that many of them are too spineless to stick to their prior convitions in the face of very slim majority referendum shows you how trustworthy they are! I can accept MP changing their minds in constituencies that voted heavily for Brexit, but those MPs in Remain or evenly tied constituencies should stick to their guns!

Tidgy

A politicians job is to act on behalf of their constituents, the people voted and politicians have a duty to enact that, whether they agree with it personally or not.