So Brexit seems to be a good thing then.
02 August 2019, 07:25 AM
#5073
02 August 2019, 08:31 AM
#5075
Good grief, reading Felix's recent posts makes me wonder if the police force should tighten their rules on acceptance and introduce a formal 'can you grasp reality' test.
02 August 2019, 09:38 AM
#5076
If you would like to join the debate, great - but make a reasoned statement based on the current debate thread. If you can't give an answer, then don't just make a 'can you grasp reality' response.
02 August 2019, 10:49 AM
#5078
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So up not quite sure what the problem is , if were all the same inside the EU
i hope your job gets easier when were out , it seems unlikley even so
i hope your job gets easier when were out , it seems unlikley even so
02 August 2019, 10:58 AM
#5079
Scooby Senior
The point is that we have EU member state populations (eg Polish, Romanians etc) who can enter the country saying they are here to visit family for 2 weeks, then disappear. And unless there are glaring issues that have come to light, they go unnoticed because we can't do any kind of random checks when they enter. It has nothing to do with their passports - its the PNC (or equivalent) checks that can not be done. If there is reasonable suspicion then we can check anyone - i'm talking about random checks on people coming in that would would flag intelligence up on their or our systems.
Non EU countries we will be able to check - as the rule only applies to EU members. And all the countries outside the EU I have had dealings with are always happy to help when they can
Non EU countries we will be able to check - as the rule only applies to EU members. And all the countries outside the EU I have had dealings with are always happy to help when they can
Sounds a bit big brother to me!
You found the criminal, now look for the crime!
02 August 2019, 11:11 AM
#5080
No, random checks should suffice to start with.
From my own personal experience, we have people coming into the country to set up huge cannabis farms - which then go on to fund cocaine & heroin rings. So they stay in the country for months, years unnoticed until something happens (other gangs or police disrupting them). They then leave the country and another 'associate' comes over as a replacement.
Or, they freely move in and out of the country every few months so they are impossible to trace and bring other trafficked people across with them - either farmers or young girls who they can run in this country to make a profit.
So, we have the crime, but the criminals can come and go.
But, if you're happy for that to continue that's fine. Most of the farms are upwards of 1000 plants - that's £1000 per plant making it a very lucrative business for them.
From my own personal experience, we have people coming into the country to set up huge cannabis farms - which then go on to fund cocaine & heroin rings. So they stay in the country for months, years unnoticed until something happens (other gangs or police disrupting them). They then leave the country and another 'associate' comes over as a replacement.
Or, they freely move in and out of the country every few months so they are impossible to trace and bring other trafficked people across with them - either farmers or young girls who they can run in this country to make a profit.
So, we have the crime, but the criminals can come and go.
But, if you're happy for that to continue that's fine. Most of the farms are upwards of 1000 plants - that's £1000 per plant making it a very lucrative business for them.
02 August 2019, 12:21 PM
#5081
Scooby Senior
No, random checks should suffice to start with.
From my own personal experience, we have people coming into the country to set up huge cannabis farms - which then go on to fund cocaine & heroin rings. So they stay in the country for months, years unnoticed until something happens (other gangs or police disrupting them). They then leave the country and another 'associate' comes over as a replacement.
Or, they freely move in and out of the country every few months so they are impossible to trace and bring other trafficked people across with them - either farmers or young girls who they can run in this country to make a profit.
So, we have the crime, but the criminals can come and go.
But, if you're happy for that to continue that's fine. Most of the farms are upwards of 1000 plants - that's £1000 per plant making it a very lucrative business for them.
From my own personal experience, we have people coming into the country to set up huge cannabis farms - which then go on to fund cocaine & heroin rings. So they stay in the country for months, years unnoticed until something happens (other gangs or police disrupting them). They then leave the country and another 'associate' comes over as a replacement.
Or, they freely move in and out of the country every few months so they are impossible to trace and bring other trafficked people across with them - either farmers or young girls who they can run in this country to make a profit.
So, we have the crime, but the criminals can come and go.
But, if you're happy for that to continue that's fine. Most of the farms are upwards of 1000 plants - that's £1000 per plant making it a very lucrative business for them.
Criminals have always and will always look at what they can get away with and react accordingly. If the risk of being caught is low and the severity of the punishment is low, then the appeal of the crime and criminal gains will be higher. As has been said many times, in your area it may be Polish or Romanian gangs running the show, in other areas its British gangs. If you get rid of the foreign gangs, they will quickly be replaced with British gangs. The problem is not foreign drugs and crime gangs, but drugs and crime gangs per se - where they come from is largely irrelevant.
The UK drugs policy for cannabis is certainly partly to blame because at the moment you have a half-way house that decriminalises the use goes after the supply. But if the users have no risk, then the demand will increase. You either need to increase the risk to the users to reduce demand, or legalise cannabis to cut out the criminal element, but the current situation is probably the worst choice! In countries that have legalised cannabis use, you have generally seen a reduction in usage (removing the naughty factor reduces appeal!), a reduction in crime and a reduction in people moving to harder drugs because they no longer have contact with the criminal dealers who supply both cannabis and harder drugs.
The main point is, leaving the EU or bringing in tougher checks won't solve the problems with criminality. Tougher sentencing and a better funded police force with more bobbies on the beat, increasing the risk of being caught is the only way you can fix the problems. These are all factors in our own hands and are not restricted by our EU membership.
02 August 2019, 01:56 PM
#5082
Criminals have always and will always look at what they can get away with and react accordingly. If the risk of being caught is low and the severity of the punishment is low, then the appeal of the crime and criminal gains will be higher. As has been said many times, in your area it may be Polish or Romanian gangs running the show, in other areas its British gangs. If you get rid of the foreign gangs, they will quickly be replaced with British gangs. The problem is not foreign drugs and crime gangs, but drugs and crime gangs per se - where they come from is largely irrelevant.
If and when we leave the EU and stop those nasty Europeans entering, do people really think the drug farms will simply disappear? Of course they won't.
But hey, PC Felix, you keep pedaling your anti-European rhetoric if it makes you feel better.
02 August 2019, 04:42 PM
#5083
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Do we currently carry out random checks on non-EU passport holders...and if so is there any data about conviction rate from those checks?
Other then the highlighted text you posted earlier is there any other legislation that is preventing us carrying out random checks...I’m surprised it hasn’t been challenged on the grounds of security.
03 August 2019, 10:11 AM
#5084
Serious crime will be flagged, intelligence links and such wont be. So, they will be free to come and go unhindered.
Yes, there are always other gangs but with British gangs, you have a good chance of catching them as they pretty much stay in the UK. The gangs from the EU are almost impossible to capture as they come and go as they please or just send others over if the heat is on. They also traffic loads of people into the country.
If you have a house and you have 5 kids - 2 of them are a little bit naughty and keeping pinching the odd £5 from your wallet or take the odd bottle of Bud every now and then. Would you leave your front door open too and allow others to do the same based on the fact that crime is going to happen anyway. Or would you close your door and then you can concentrate on your 2 naughty kids.
Yes, there are always other gangs but with British gangs, you have a good chance of catching them as they pretty much stay in the UK. The gangs from the EU are almost impossible to capture as they come and go as they please or just send others over if the heat is on. They also traffic loads of people into the country.
If you have a house and you have 5 kids - 2 of them are a little bit naughty and keeping pinching the odd £5 from your wallet or take the odd bottle of Bud every now and then. Would you leave your front door open too and allow others to do the same based on the fact that crime is going to happen anyway. Or would you close your door and then you can concentrate on your 2 naughty kids.
03 August 2019, 08:51 PM
#5087
Scooby Senior
Serious crime will be flagged, intelligence links and such wont be. So, they will be free to come and go unhindered.
Yes, there are always other gangs but with British gangs, you have a good chance of catching them as they pretty much stay in the UK. The gangs from the EU are almost impossible to capture as they come and go as they please or just send others over if the heat is on. They also traffic loads of people into the country.
If you have a house and you have 5 kids - 2 of them are a little bit naughty and keeping pinching the odd £5 from your wallet or take the odd bottle of Bud every now and then. Would you leave your front door open too and allow others to do the same based on the fact that crime is going to happen anyway. Or would you close your door and then you can concentrate on your 2 naughty kids.
Yes, there are always other gangs but with British gangs, you have a good chance of catching them as they pretty much stay in the UK. The gangs from the EU are almost impossible to capture as they come and go as they please or just send others over if the heat is on. They also traffic loads of people into the country.
If you have a house and you have 5 kids - 2 of them are a little bit naughty and keeping pinching the odd £5 from your wallet or take the odd bottle of Bud every now and then. Would you leave your front door open too and allow others to do the same based on the fact that crime is going to happen anyway. Or would you close your door and then you can concentrate on your 2 naughty kids.
While you are in a line of work and possibly an area of the country where EU criminals may be a problem, can you not see that this is not necessarily true for the country as a whole and that perhaps the benefits of EU membership that we are set to lose and the costly consequences of leaving the EU are greater than the tiny chance that we may catch a couple of extra criminals a year!
As for you're analagy with locking my door! Well, no, I'd make sure there were enough police doing a good job that neither my kids or the passers by could get away with taking anything from me.
05 August 2019, 07:57 AM
#5089
How do you smuggle people into a country with passport controls? Either the people they are "smuggling" are legally entering the country or the border checks are insufficient! If people can be smuggled accross a border with passport checks now, then they can be smuggled accross the border after we leave the EU!
While you are in a line of work and possibly an area of the country where EU criminals may be a problem, can you not see that this is not necessarily true for the country as a whole and that perhaps the benefits of EU membership that we are set to lose and the costly consequences of leaving the EU are greater than the tiny chance that we may catch a couple of extra criminals a year!
As for you're analagy with locking my door! Well, no, I'd make sure there were enough police doing a good job that neither my kids or the passers by could get away with taking anything from me.
While you are in a line of work and possibly an area of the country where EU criminals may be a problem, can you not see that this is not necessarily true for the country as a whole and that perhaps the benefits of EU membership that we are set to lose and the costly consequences of leaving the EU are greater than the tiny chance that we may catch a couple of extra criminals a year!
As for you're analagy with locking my door! Well, no, I'd make sure there were enough police doing a good job that neither my kids or the passers by could get away with taking anything from me.
You don't need to smuggle people in; these are people with passports who are free to enter the country but are being trafficked - vulnerable people who have been promised a better life in the UK by gangs etc. Usually brought in via a mini bus or coach with gang members. They are not going to get routinely checked, that's why we used to give advice to them to hide something metallic on their body/underwear that will set the alarms off - but the gangs have got wise to this and they are usually searched before hand.
Some parts of the country may not have the problem.....yet; but its a major issue where we are and in other parts of the country too. And its not just the drugs, its the constant battles in the streets that I mentioned earlier - I can understand why our area has voted to leave.
And the number of police is never going to be enough - despite what Boris suggests. New York was given a huge boost in police numbers, but the crime rate was never down to zero. You will always get people trying to get away with stealing things - one thing you can do is to close your door.
05 August 2019, 09:35 AM
#5090
Scooby Senior
You don't need to smuggle people in; these are people with passports who are free to enter the country but are being trafficked - vulnerable people who have been promised a better life in the UK by gangs etc. Usually brought in via a mini bus or coach with gang members. They are not going to get routinely checked, that's why we used to give advice to them to hide something metallic on their body/underwear that will set the alarms off - but the gangs have got wise to this and they are usually searched before hand.
Some parts of the country may not have the problem.....yet; but its a major issue where we are and in other parts of the country too. And its not just the drugs, its the constant battles in the streets that I mentioned earlier - I can understand why our area has voted to leave.
And the number of police is never going to be enough - despite what Boris suggests. New York was given a huge boost in police numbers, but the crime rate was never down to zero. You will always get people trying to get away with stealing things - one thing you can do is to close your door.
Some parts of the country may not have the problem.....yet; but its a major issue where we are and in other parts of the country too. And its not just the drugs, its the constant battles in the streets that I mentioned earlier - I can understand why our area has voted to leave.
And the number of police is never going to be enough - despite what Boris suggests. New York was given a huge boost in police numbers, but the crime rate was never down to zero. You will always get people trying to get away with stealing things - one thing you can do is to close your door.
The vast majority of EU immigrants are not people being smuggled. How much damage should we inflict on our own country and economy and our children's future in the hope of stopping a few criminals entering who will anyway find a way around any restrictions we put in place?
05 August 2019, 09:53 AM
#5091
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You don't need to smuggle people in; these are people with passports who are free to enter the country but are being trafficked - vulnerable people who have been promised a better life in the UK by gangs etc. Usually brought in via a mini bus or coach with gang members. They are not going to get routinely checked, that's why we used to give advice to them to hide something metallic on their body/underwear that will set the alarms off - but the gangs have got wise to this and they are usually searched before hand.
Some parts of the country may not have the problem.....yet; but its a major issue where we are and in other parts of the country too. And its not just the drugs, its the constant battles in the streets that I mentioned earlier - I can understand why our area has voted to leave.
And the number of police is never going to be enough - despite what Boris suggests. New York was given a huge boost in police numbers, but the crime rate was never down to zero. You will always get people trying to get away with stealing things - one thing you can do is to close your door.
Some parts of the country may not have the problem.....yet; but its a major issue where we are and in other parts of the country too. And its not just the drugs, its the constant battles in the streets that I mentioned earlier - I can understand why our area has voted to leave.
And the number of police is never going to be enough - despite what Boris suggests. New York was given a huge boost in police numbers, but the crime rate was never down to zero. You will always get people trying to get away with stealing things - one thing you can do is to close your door.
We can't 'close the door' any country would stagnate and die.
05 August 2019, 10:56 AM
#5092
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Goes on everwhere , Including at the behest of our homegrown scum / exploiters
the largest most prolific ever prosecuted not that ago somewhere licolnshire if im not mistaken
Weve got nothing on places like Italy eg
the largest most prolific ever prosecuted not that ago somewhere licolnshire if im not mistaken
Weve got nothing on places like Italy eg
Last edited by dpb; 05 August 2019 at 11:04 AM.
06 August 2019, 08:12 AM
#5093
06 August 2019, 08:32 AM
#5094
Scooby Senior
For the political class driving Brexit, they don't give two ***** about organised crime in your area, its a million miles away from their daily lives! Brext for Boris, Farage, Rees Mogg and all their ilk is about investment banking - creating instability in the market and removing EU banking regulations so they can do more dodgy dealings and make more money!
In the end, with a hard Brexit, crime is only likely to increase! This rhetoric of blaming foreigners for all crimes is exactly what Trump has been doing and only serves to increase violence against immigrants. How much have you seen anti-immigrant related crimes increase in your area?
06 August 2019, 08:47 AM
#5095
06 August 2019, 08:59 AM
#5096
Scooby Senior
Take it you're not in the North of England then!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47645863
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-48692863
Brexit affects the whole of the UK, not just your area! Maybe you should start looking at the bigger picture and not just one problem that is unique to you!
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-47645863
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-48692863
Brexit affects the whole of the UK, not just your area! Maybe you should start looking at the bigger picture and not just one problem that is unique to you!
06 August 2019, 10:46 AM
#5098