stilover

I think the Civic Type-R look very nice in Blue, or Red.

If I was a little younger, I'd probably look at getting one. Just a shame the rear wing and lights weren't the same as the Concept car though.

Never really liked Type-R's before, but this is the first I'd have seriously considered.

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

I quite liked the Civic Type R that I took out for a test drive. I thought its engine felt great. Really strong, pulled all the way to red line. Felt great. But I just couldn't get past the FWD. Pulling out of a not 100% dry junction, 1st gear spin, 2nd gear spin, 3rd gear torque steer lol

Still, I loved the interior and seats. Great car, but for me FWD just isn't suitable at these levels of performance.

Haven't had the chance to drive a Focus RS, I'm sure it's fantastic, could just do with a slightly better soundtrack and I kind of expected slightly better acceleration for a 350bhp AWD car. But we know how easily that can be fixed

SmurfyBhoy

Only because Golf Clubsport S is sold out

SmurfyBhoy

Can it "easily" be fixed


Can't see that drive train surviving 400/400

ScoobyDoo69

iTrader: (17)

I believe there's already gearsets, diffs etc. available already, so easily is dependent on pocket depth I guess!

Matty81

Honda are releasing a new type r next year with 340bhp but still keeping with the new front wheel'd drive technology that they are using know. If Honda are still using that it can't be that bad. I'd still have a type r over a focus anyday

Matty81

It sends 400nm of torque all through the front wheels aswell, which in itself is scary but fantastic technology

jayallen

iTrader: (31)

Cool story bro.

As opposed to your usual tall story.

RAGGY DOO

iTrader: (1)

Bitchmaster living up to his name as normal

P1Fanatic

I would never buy a FWD hot hatch again after owning an FN2 and RS MK2. They are just not practical to drive quickly unless you’re driving on nice new, bone dry, flat tarmac. The marketing hype said the RS had trick revoknuckle suspension and LSD to enable it to put down the power but the reality was anything but. Owners forums would say it was minimal but they were deluded. Even with a torque mount fitted and brand Michelin PSS tyres if it was slightly damp, cold etc then you would spin tyres in 4th easily and plenty of torque steer. Even moving over cats eyes in the middle of the road you would feel the steering wheel pulling.

Now we have the new CTR and its again got trick this and that to put the power down. I haven’t driven one but I would be amazed if it’s any different in anything but perfect conditions. You can’t alter physics and weight distribution heading rearwards under acceleration.

I would personally pick the RS3 purely for that 5 pot soundtrack – that was the saving grace for the RS that made if worth living with the lack of traction.

Saxo Boy

This is a great post and in line with what I expected. I've not owned or driven any high power FWD hatches with anything like 300bhp, but I have long suspected that trick diff/revo knuckle or not, they are probably useless in anything other than optimal conditions. I find me 168bhp diesel Leon frustrating and on that basis ruled out all FWD hot-hatches. This has been met with claims online that the FWD hatches are as fast/faster than 4WD hatches in anything other than snow or soaking wet conditions. I call BS because I can get my Leon spinning in damp, muddy, broken, rutted, leafy, cold, off-camber roads without any great effort. Factor in the weather in the north of Scotland and it's a no brainer. Pleased to see someone with some real life experience confirm what I have long suspected that these FWD hyper-hatches don't magic up physics defying traction.

john banks

I lost track Kenny, do you have an RS coming?

FWD is just ****.

McLaren might be able to rewrite the rule book, to a degree, on LSDs and ARBs with RWD, but no one is making anything but turd out of FWD. It is a budget option, that is fine, but the fanboys pretending otherwise haven't experienced a good example of something AWD with real grunt.

Saxo Boy

Hi John,

Technically yes. I pre-ordered in early October last year and expected the car for about May/June. I had loads of events planned over the summer where the RS featured but it's not due until October this year.

A month ago I reevaluated my situation and decided to go for a Golf R Estate on lease instead. Briefly, my reasons were:

1) Much more practical
2) DSG - which I love
3) As fast out the box
4) JB1 piggyback waiting in the loft = 0-100mph in 9-9.5s
5) Significantly cheaper to pay for on a month to month basis
5) Much better car 95% of the time
6) Not as much fun the 5% fo the time but, crucially, still fun

That last one is important. If the Golf R Estate wasn't fun to drive when on my own I might as well get a diesel DSG. I took one for a test drive and it was a blast; sure, a Focus would probably be more fun but the Golf was plenty fun for me.

I'm now looking to sell my RS as a pre-registered delivery mileage car because there is over £2k equity between the price I pay and the current list and the waiting list is still 9-12 months for anyone ordering now.

john banks

Sounds like a good plan. Not tried the RS, but the initial tuning results suggested the standard turbo already has a workout, whereas the R leaves about 60 HP on the table tune only. Not at all keen on piggybacks but can see why people do with a lease.

Saxo Boy

Yeah, I figured you wouldn't be but a remap is an instant TD1 and at least with a piggyback you have a fighting chance of making a warranty claim (lack of morals notwithstanding).

If you are bored do some reading on the BurgerSport JB1, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts. I chose it after a lot of research specifically because it manipulates fueling pre-combustion via the fuel rail pressure sensor. Most competitor products rely on the ECU to chase its tail by adjusting the mixture based on lean readings from the Lambda sensor. I've seen graphs of the JB1 and the AFRs are very close to stock throughout the rev range in a 4th gear dyno pull. The DTUK box on the other hand goes lean (too much air), adapts and holds near stock for a bit then goes pig rich (EGTs too high after initial lean spike).

Fabioso

I think a 4WD CTR would be Awesome and Honda once did a 4 Wheel steer Prelude decades ago then they must have the capability to do 4WD if they wanted to. Assuming then the price point is the limiting factor............

I would have a Golf R over any current FWD Hyperhatch because in the real world with UK weather conditions it is going to be faster most of the time.

banny sti

iTrader: (68)

Been out with fud in his CTR was pretty impressed by its all round capabilities but it was dry at the time, also S3's, golf r's and rs3's are driven by some of the biggest ***** on the face on the earth for that reason alone I wouldnt have one (rich coming from a Subaru owner I know lol)

nortonscooby

^^ what he said. I find the rs3 and golf r plain and boring to the eye. And after my experiance with my cupra r and views off others i will never touch a vag car again.love the old school fords with a passion but the focus/fiesta of modern times just dont spark my interest. Again this is just my opinion but i love the go faster looks of the type r.

john banks

I know the JB4 from another platform I have been working on.

Ignition timing, torque values, load are all faked. Automotive grade chips are not used and they are very limited in processing power compared to the ECU they are faking.

Not heard of cases, but TD1 could be flagged by tuning boxes as the ECU could easily detect them.

Saxo Boy

Yeah JB4 is popular in BMW circles. I've yet to hear of a confirmed case of VAG warranty refusal on account of tuning box detection but it's not impossible. The dilemma is that - as you say - 60hp is very easily obtained on the EA888 engine and a remap will almost certainly be discovered, even if flashed back to stock. From an engineering perspective, it's clearly the best route but it's not an option on a lease car.

A tuning box seems to be the best option (short of leaving that 60bhp on the table) unless you have any other suggestions? The one area where I do take some comfort is that the piggyback doesn't do anything at low loads, i.e. tootling around town/steady cruise. In short, the ECU is working with true values and operating normally 99% of the time. I only want that extra burst for the occasional weekend drive, overtakes and gunning it off roundabouts.

john banks

It is an understandable compromise. I'm sure there are cases of warranty refusal with a TD1 code, but it tends to be more forum hysteria, unless you are the one affected. GT-R had similar issues with a black box recorder, but it hardly ever actually affected anyone.

A lease or company car is another matter, you are taking the risk with someone else's property and it would breach contracts no doubt and lead to consequences.

P1Fanatic

I passengered in a friends 400bhp MK2 RS at Brands and on a proper track surface in dry conditions it was hunting down a lot of expensive machinery. The typical FWD understeer was minimal but it was running Pilot Cup Sports which are road legal semi slicks. Understeer was not so much of an issue especially compared to the FN2 which always want to head wide – partly due to the overly hard suspension setup. The RS just struggled to put the power down – good example is coming off a roundabout and into a bend – would easily lose ground to AWD and RWD cars.

I’ve now gone for practicality and run an X3 30D which is a boat in comparison (but still slim compared to X5, Range Rover etc). I would say due to AWD alone it would be faster off the line than a MK2 RS in dry conditions despite being down about 40 bhp and carrying a lot more weight. In the wet it wouldn’t even be a contest. I wait for the day I get to test this but so far not come across one. I am happier these days in something more subtle, practical and comfy but that has a enough power if you want a little blast down a dual carriageway etc. No skill involved with AWD and auto box – just plant your right foot – but that’s what I want. Have caught quite a few hot hatches out. A remapped 35D or Alpina would be mucho fun but the latter is less of a sleeper.

The Golf R is a sleeper as gives little away other than the exhaust pipes and subtle R badges. Now I am approaching 40 I prefer that look as doesnt tend to attract idiot drivers wanting to show you their skillz. The R is definetly the best value for money especially with the lease deals.

john banks

The Golf R looks at least as fast as it is IMHO.

Saxo Boy

Mines is the estate version. Much rarer and few people know they do a golf R estate. Hoping for a real sleeper vibe. I do think the hatch looks boring for a hot hatch. The estate gets away with it precisely because it's an estate. As a bonus, estate sounds better too odly.