Focus RS vs Civic Type-R
 

From other reviews and other group tests I have read, I am very surprised at the conclusion on this Pistonheads review.

http://www.pistonheads.com/features/...c-type-r/34266

Although when it is wet I would think the Focus would always be making better progress by a country mile.

Personally, I think I would choose the Golf R in that price range........:)

I haven't driven either, but all the reviews I've read of both cars have been very positive. I understand why people would opt for the Focus with its AWD and favourable 0-60 time, but it doesn't surprise me that the Civic got the nod here. Honda Type R cars have always been great drivers' cars. I owned an FN2, and despite its lack of torque, that was still a lot of fun, with an amazing 'box. And now Honda has seen sense and added a turbo to the latest model.

Our type r is around 390/390 iirc and until you've driven one you wouldn't believe how well it handles, there is a little torque steer but it hasn't had the alignment doing for fast road or track and is very capable out of the factory.

Any pics? Im a massive type r fan. Loved owning and driving both my ep3s.

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Stunning. My next car thats for sure. Got to be in red or white. Any youtube videos of it yet?

There are some videos of some track time, think they're being edited together at the moment so will let you know :thumb:

I wouldn't, don't doubt for a minute that they're a capable car, but they look more or less like any other Golf to me.

Agreed. And those poverty-spec alloys that VW decided to put on are absolutely horrific.

For me, the Focus RS is the best all round hot-hatch on sale today, which is why I have one on order.

My thinking on the key rivals are as follows:

Golf R - Brilliant car, would be excellent everyday and I might go for it if FRS didn't exist.
Seat Leon - Until details for FRS were released I was going to get an ST Sub-8 version of the Leon. I think it's much better looking than Golf R and probably more fun to drive. Reisduals scare me a little.
A45 AMG - Capable car (facelifted) but not the best looking in my view and just too expensive. I don't do base models (i.e. no options) and if I'm spending that money I'm gettting something much better than a hot-hatch.
RS3 - Same problem as AMG.
French Offerings - Just not powerful enough or nice enough for my tastes. Still a little "French" and my saxo boy days are over
Civic Type R - Really don't get along with the looks and I'm not keen on putting 300bhp+ through the front of a car. The reason I was willing to put up with it in the Cupra is because I was thinking 80% every day car 20% fun car. If I was buying a civic I would be thinking more 20%/80% and FWD and 300bhp doesn't do it for me as a weekend/keen drive tool.
M135i - Not exciting enough for a weekend proposition so if I was going to get a BMW I'd get a 335d Touring instead.

So that brings me to the Focus. It has 4WD, which was high on the wish list, but better yet, it's a 4WD system that is more fun than any of its rivals. First big tick. It has sufficient power to put it slightly ahead of Type-R/Golf R/Cupra for performance. The gap isn't as big as 345bhp might suggest, but it is there. All performance Ford's are tuned by Mountune with warranty friendly upgrades. It will be possible to get 380bhp (ish) out of the car without impacting on piece of mind - not aware of any rival offering this (maybe AC Schnitzer?). The car looks aggressive and interesting enough for a weekend toy but isn't so aggressive that you look like a pleb nipping to the shops. It is also practical enough to use every day, albeit lacking the interior and boot space of many rivals (especially estate versions).

In the end, I viewed it as having the right blend of aggression, specialness and weekend thrills with everyday practicality. I think it'll be more fun to drive than most of the above and with Mountune as fast as any stock rival. The fact that it was £29k* and will have residuals to shame any of its rivals seals the deal.

Just for fun, if I could play hot-hatch god I'd build the following:

Engine from RS3
Transmission from A45 AMG
4WD system from FRS
ST Cupra Practicalities
Megan Chassis & Dampers
RS3 Interior
FRS Residuals
FRS Looks
FRS Price

*before you option it up

God that Honda's ugly....for one moment I thought it was a new Subaru :eek:

The residuals won't be good for the Focus. Why? They're building as many as they can build. They've just announce more allocation to the uk meaning even more of them about, and most importantly, it's not got the same coolness as older RS cars. Just like the Golf R, in a couple years, the market will be flooded with second hand "British Gas Blue" Focus RS's.

For residuals out of the cars above? RS3's always hold value. Limited numbers, and RS Badge.

For me.
Engine - RS3
Transmission - FRS (Manual)
AWD System - FRS (But without silly drift mode)
Practicalities - RS3
Chassis - FRS
Interior - RS3
Residuals - RS3
Looks - RS3
Price - FRS

4000 to 5000 units is hardly earth shattering. Besides, they didn't pull them out of thin air, they re-allocated from other markets globally. The car isn't limited by marketing men but rather the amount they can build in the time they have left before the plant is retooled for the MK4 focus.

If it was so easily to churn them out en-mass and knacker the residual values can you explain why I'm still waiting for mines despite ordering 8 months ago and why the current waiting times are estimated at around a year?

I'm pretty sure people said the MKII wouldn't hold it's value either - they were very wrong ;)

New Focus looks boring compared to older version, think they have tried to play it to save., with the styling.

The new Focus RS will not hold value as well as people think. The market will be flooded in a couple years. 90% being Blue.

If people think this car will rise in value like all current old school RS's, they're deluded.

Nitrous penetration is nowhere near 90% and I do not believe and have never stated that I think its value would rise. Price is determined by supply vs demand; at the moment the supply cannot keep up with demand and that it unlikely to change until production stops.

A few years from now I'm betting it will retain a better proportion of its value than:

a) the GFMV of £16,800
b) most competitors (Golf R, Cupra, M140i, AMG 45, possibly RS3)
c) you think it will

This is because many RS owners keep the car longer than 3 years and the release of them new has been slow and steady. There won't be a dump of 100s of 3 year old cars onto the market in June 2019 for example. Those that do come to market will still be sought after in my view. Besides, RS direct will buy most examples like they did with the MKII and keep the price sky high ;) But nobody knows, if either of us knew for stuff like this for sure we'd be billionaires.

Seems obvious you don't like the car and I know you've had an R8 and, if I recall, you have had or still own an S3 (competitor product). You probably look down on it as a cheap, chav mobile. That's fine, that's where you are in life. I am personally rather excited to take delivery of what is possibly the most consistently positively reviewed hot-hatch in years and if my man-maths are delusional and I do get humped for £5k+ more in depreciation than I'm banking on, then I guess I can cry about it in 3-5 years time.

I rememeber a time when people didn't seem to think the Escort RS Cosworth would increase in value and look what happened to that........Same with the Honda NSX.....I kick myself when I look at what pop up 3.2's are going for these days......For quite a while many people didn't rate the Mk1 Focus RS either and look what happened to that........Ford Capri? some times these things dip and then come of age.

It's a bit of a lottery when it comes to depreciation, look at the difference between 350Z's and what RX8's went for a few years later, despite being around the same price point new.

I wouldn't bet against the new Focus RS tbh...........

Thing with all these new cars is there's nothing special about them from a collectors point.

I'm not knocking the drive at all, don't get me wrong. But, as a piece of collectable art in years to come? err.. Nope!

People talk about old Cosworths etc but they actually have something unique, the engine! Just the rocker cover design alone is enough to stir up most petrol heads.

All these new performance cars are the same, pop the bonnet and it's plastic fantastic. They're no different under the bonnet to any other car in the range (maybe the AMG merc actually isn't too bad).

Like I say, I'm not knocking the car's today but I can't see how a Golf R will be sat in the equivalent 'jay Leno' style collection with the bonnet up in 20 years.

And as for civic type r vs new RS.. Focus please! FWD with that much power in this country? No thanks. Drive my mates mk2 focus RS a few times, OK in the dry. But after going out in the wet, lol no thanks!

It's not that I don't like the RS as for what it is. It's a great car. However, for me:-

It looks terrible. Not the RS's fault, but it's based on an ugly car to start with.

The interior. Yes, having owned an R8 and now an S3, I find Ford interiors cheap and nasty now. OK, maybe it's an age thing, but having a quality interior provides a car with a `feel good` factor, that once the hooning around stops, you just want it to be a nice place to sit and munch miles.

Forget the whole which is faster sh!te. Most cars will never see a race track, and there's far too many cars on the road to make use of any negligible chassis advantage.

Years ago, I'd have wet myself over this car. I was a die hard Fast Ford fan growing up. I was just to young to buy/own all the RS Cosworths that came out. If I'd been old enough .......

I owned the MK1 Focus RS, and it was a nice car, with a small flaw. Sold that and bought a Impreza STI PPP. I had my name down for the MKII Focus RS, when all the rumours were it would have AWD. Took my name off it when it turned out it didn't.

The MKIII Focus RS? It's just not special enough. It's not got the iconic Cosworth Badge that distinguished the Sierra Cosworth from lesser models. It's not got the Rally car looks of the Escort Cosworth, and indeed the Focus doesn't go rallying, so it has no Rally heritage to go with it (unlike the cosworth/Impreza/Evo's etc). It's just a go faster Focus. Based on a very large and ugly car.

In a world of Golf R's / S3's and RS3's / A45 AMG etc, the Focuses only trump card is it's price. That's it.

If that was totally true, surely it would have bombed in both the press and with the public. The value for money is a factor but for me it's quite a lot more exciting than the likes of the Golf R to look at and (I believe) drive.

I've gone the other way by the way. I have always been anti-fast Ford... I pretty much hated all cossies, and the MK1 focus (including the RS). The MKII Focus caught my eye but I dismissed it on account of FWD as well. Only now do fast Fords fit my profile. Toned down looks and increased practicality for a price that undercuts the opposition while providing the same/more performance and greater thrills.

Id waste 10k not to be identified as just another audi man

together with the best package for al round fun !?

Top Gear last night : Focus RS vs Civic Type-R vs A45 AMG.

I find all Vag cars utterly uninspiring to look at. For me it would be the Focus or Civic. If they toned down the Civic rear wing, that would be the winner on the looks front. I cant comment on the drive as I have not driven the top level models but from driving the 'normal' version, for me the Civic feels the better car.

Much prefer Civic for looks, the Ford have just tried to be more subtle just to please the mass market. Civic ear spoiler makes it look evil.

For other "faster" fwd times could have one of these Clubsport S Gti ,

If they wern't all sold out

So that civic is faster in day to day driving, looks far more exciting and is built considerably better too.

Could they have made the golf look more boring? Lol

I'll take the type R every day of the week. The golf is only quicker once you've gone way past the legal limit. Fine if you're on track, but 99% of the time, the type R is the faster machine, and surely that's what these cars are about?

True but if you are not chasing the pub figures then surely the golf r with 4wd on our roads in our weather the R or focus rs would be quicker car most of time ?

May not have the same "feel" tho ?

How much would Joe public have to plough into his car to achieve those figures?

A couple of tenths faster to 60 is hardly faster in day to day driving. :lol1: