View Poll Results: How will you vote in the EU referendum?
Voters: 255. You may not vote on this poll
EU Referendum
25 February 2016, 12:43 PM
#211
LOL at you two bleeding heart liberals.
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
25 February 2016, 01:03 PM
#212
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL at you two bleeding heart liberals.
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Nice try, but as ever you're miles wide of the mark
25 February 2016, 01:07 PM
#213
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Berks
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL at you two bleeding heart liberals.
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
As for all this poverty you're talking about in the UK, that's so relative it's laughable. What you're calling poverty is still a better standard of living than the poorer corners of Europe, let alone the world. Eastern Europeans were coming over here to work long before they were allowed to claim benefits, why do you think that is?
25 February 2016, 01:25 PM
#214
Show me one single post where you've even come close to conceding that males vastly outnumber females among these migrants, and I might just accept that not everything you have to say on this subject is pure spin, deflection, or outright lies. Otherwise ...
25 February 2016, 01:38 PM
#215
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I despair - I've never claimed they didn't. I took issue with the blatant lie that 90% were. Last time I checked 57% is not 90%
I assume if I said 100% were young men, you'd just sit there and tacitly agree?
If you are going to accuse me of lying, then you'd better pretty damn quickly come up with some examples
25 February 2016, 01:50 PM
#216
And the fact you're still wriggling and contorting around trying desparately to avoid acknowledging it again right now proves exactly what I said in my last post - everything you ever have to say on this subject is spin, deflection or lies.
25 February 2016, 01:56 PM
#217
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Last time I checked, 72% isn't 57% either!!!
What I would certainly not do is just sit their ripping the p!ss out of the other poster and carrying on as though the claim they were making was pure and utter fantasy.
Right now I'm accusing you of whenever this subject comes up, never acknowledging that even if the numbers sometimes quoted are slightly exaggerated, they're not actually that far from the truth. Not one single damn time.
And the fact you're still wriggling and contorting around trying desparately to avoid acknowledging it again right now proves exactly what I said in my last post - everything you ever have to say on this subject is spin, deflection or lies.
What I would certainly not do is just sit their ripping the p!ss out of the other poster and carrying on as though the claim they were making was pure and utter fantasy.
Right now I'm accusing you of whenever this subject comes up, never acknowledging that even if the numbers sometimes quoted are slightly exaggerated, they're not actually that far from the truth. Not one single damn time.
And the fact you're still wriggling and contorting around trying desparately to avoid acknowledging it again right now proves exactly what I said in my last post - everything you ever have to say on this subject is spin, deflection or lies.
How did you get to 72%?
90% is an extraordinary exaggeration deliberately used to create fear, and should be challenged because it's a dangerous lie. How can you possibly call that as 'slightly exaggerated'
25 February 2016, 02:07 PM
#219
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You accuse me of spin then post this up OMG - up to this point no one even mentioned 'gender split', you've done some mental gymnastics here I'm afraid.
Anyway back to the facts...
57% were young men, not the 90% that kept being quoted. You cannot even get close to that even by including CHILDREN.
Damn those poor destitute kids coming over here, stealing our jobs...
I mean really???
Last edited by Martin2005; 25 February 2016 at 02:35 PM.
25 February 2016, 05:55 PM
#220
Spin, deflect, lie, spin, deflect, lie, spin, deflect, lie, repeat ad infinitum.
For anyone not stuck in the same incurable looping brain-spasm as Martin, the reason why males under the age of 18 should be included is precisely because older male teens make up a large proportion of those so-called children:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
For anyone not stuck in the same incurable looping brain-spasm as Martin, the reason why males under the age of 18 should be included is precisely because older male teens make up a large proportion of those so-called children:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
25 February 2016, 07:16 PM
#221
Damn those poor destitute kids coming over here, stealing our jobs...
I mean really???
I mean really???
Let's sort out THIS country before we have every man Jack you think ought to come first.
25 February 2016, 07:21 PM
#222
Nice try, but as ever you're miles wide of the mark
You're doing it again, **** everyone else put Britain first. If you're going to play politics on the global stage then you've got to be prepared to actually play.
As for all this poverty you're talking about in the UK, that's so relative it's laughable. What you're calling poverty is still a better standard of living than the poorer corners of Europe, let alone the world. Eastern Europeans were coming over here to work long before they were allowed to claim benefits, why do you think that is?
As for all this poverty you're talking about in the UK, that's so relative it's laughable. What you're calling poverty is still a better standard of living than the poorer corners of Europe, let alone the world. Eastern Europeans were coming over here to work long before they were allowed to claim benefits, why do you think that is?
I note that YOU didn't answer either of my questions?
Your last paragraph is ludicrous...coming over here before they could claim benefits? Ho ho, how exactly did they get out from behind their iron curtain, pray tell?
You really are grasping at straws now.
25 February 2016, 07:30 PM
#223
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Spin, deflect, lie, spin, deflect, lie, spin, deflect, lie, repeat ad infinitum.
For anyone not stuck in the same incurable looping brain-spasm as Martin, the reason why males under the age of 18 should be included is precisely because older male teens make up a large proportion of those so-called children:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
For anyone not stuck in the same incurable looping brain-spasm as Martin, the reason why males under the age of 18 should be included is precisely because older male teens make up a large proportion of those so-called children:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-35444173
25 February 2016, 07:34 PM
#224
Scooby Regular
Whenever I read your posts I am reminded of two similar thoughts
One is the final utterance of Winston Smith in Room 101 (George Orwells 1984) mixed in with the wonderfully evocative poem by
Pastor Martin Niemölle
"They came for me"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
One is the final utterance of Winston Smith in Room 101 (George Orwells 1984) mixed in with the wonderfully evocative poem by
Pastor Martin Niemölle
"They came for me"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_...
25 February 2016, 07:44 PM
#226
just spotted this looks like there is trouble ahead
Bureaucrats in Brussels are holding back key legislation that would impact the United Kingdom and other member states for fear of impacting the British referendum on membership of the European Union, it has been claimed today.
Writing in Politico.eu, Brussels correspondent Tara Palmeri details how post-Brexit, there may well be a deluge of onerous legislation dumped on EU member states, fuelling fears of a “Brussels Time Bomb”.
Officials have reportedly said that key EU initiatives which may be “controversial” have been shelved to assist Prime Minister David Cameron’s campaign to keep Britain in the European Union. The legislation includes a €20bn increase in the EU’s budget, new rules on the freedom of movement, and indeed the accession to the European Convention on Human Rights – a deeply unpopular, sovereignty-stripping treaty.
“There’s a kind of a deflection of attention to some issues,” Mercedes Bresso, an Italian MEP from the Socialists and Democrats group said. She added the referendum was causing a “delay in some debates,” admitting: “Now is not the moment to create more problems.”
“These proposals can be discussed after June without creating too many difficulties,” a French official said, adding: “In fact, it would be more problematic if we had to negotiate under the pressure of the U.K.. So, in a way, it protects the other member states as well.”
“Everyone knows this is not a good time because of the problems with the U.K.,” said Pedro López de Pablo, spokesman for the European People’s Party group in the Parliament. “The Commission has been very cautious on all of these things. Nowadays we’re in a public opinion environment that everyone attacks the European Union.”
And perhaps the most revealing comment came from Polish MEP Jan Olbrycht who is also a member of the EU’s budgets committee. He said: “They don’t want to open the pandora’s box before the referendum”.
But some MEPs on the budgets committee say the delay will make their oversight role more difficult by not giving them enough time to consider proposed revisions submitted by the Commission. They say they need to see the proposal now — and not in September after the referendum dust has settled and the summer break is over.
“They don’t want to open the pandora’s box before the referendum,” said Polish MEP Jan Olbrycht, a member of the budgets committee. “We want the Commission to make their proposals as soon as possible. We need a serious debate about the review and the revision. There’s no time to waste.”
A Commission spokesman told Politico the EU was currently in a “period of reflection” over how to proceed with the accession to the European Convention of Human Rights, which could exercise supreme authority over Britain’s judicial system.
A spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign told Breitbart London: “It has become clear that Britain can expect a deluge of onerous Brussels regulation if we vote to stay in the European Union. This Brussels time bomb can only be avoided by voting to leave on June 23rd. The fact that the European Union is trying to hide this from the British electorate is just another sign of the kind of underhand tactics they employ to keep the big lobbyists and corporate interests in Brussels happy
Bureaucrats in Brussels are holding back key legislation that would impact the United Kingdom and other member states for fear of impacting the British referendum on membership of the European Union, it has been claimed today.
Writing in Politico.eu, Brussels correspondent Tara Palmeri details how post-Brexit, there may well be a deluge of onerous legislation dumped on EU member states, fuelling fears of a “Brussels Time Bomb”.
Officials have reportedly said that key EU initiatives which may be “controversial” have been shelved to assist Prime Minister David Cameron’s campaign to keep Britain in the European Union. The legislation includes a €20bn increase in the EU’s budget, new rules on the freedom of movement, and indeed the accession to the European Convention on Human Rights – a deeply unpopular, sovereignty-stripping treaty.
“There’s a kind of a deflection of attention to some issues,” Mercedes Bresso, an Italian MEP from the Socialists and Democrats group said. She added the referendum was causing a “delay in some debates,” admitting: “Now is not the moment to create more problems.”
“These proposals can be discussed after June without creating too many difficulties,” a French official said, adding: “In fact, it would be more problematic if we had to negotiate under the pressure of the U.K.. So, in a way, it protects the other member states as well.”
“Everyone knows this is not a good time because of the problems with the U.K.,” said Pedro López de Pablo, spokesman for the European People’s Party group in the Parliament. “The Commission has been very cautious on all of these things. Nowadays we’re in a public opinion environment that everyone attacks the European Union.”
And perhaps the most revealing comment came from Polish MEP Jan Olbrycht who is also a member of the EU’s budgets committee. He said: “They don’t want to open the pandora’s box before the referendum”.
But some MEPs on the budgets committee say the delay will make their oversight role more difficult by not giving them enough time to consider proposed revisions submitted by the Commission. They say they need to see the proposal now — and not in September after the referendum dust has settled and the summer break is over.
“They don’t want to open the pandora’s box before the referendum,” said Polish MEP Jan Olbrycht, a member of the budgets committee. “We want the Commission to make their proposals as soon as possible. We need a serious debate about the review and the revision. There’s no time to waste.”
A Commission spokesman told Politico the EU was currently in a “period of reflection” over how to proceed with the accession to the European Convention of Human Rights, which could exercise supreme authority over Britain’s judicial system.
A spokesman for the Leave.EU campaign told Breitbart London: “It has become clear that Britain can expect a deluge of onerous Brussels regulation if we vote to stay in the European Union. This Brussels time bomb can only be avoided by voting to leave on June 23rd. The fact that the European Union is trying to hide this from the British electorate is just another sign of the kind of underhand tactics they employ to keep the big lobbyists and corporate interests in Brussels happy
25 February 2016, 07:54 PM
#227
Scooby Regular
LOL at you two bleeding heart liberals.
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
25 February 2016, 08:25 PM
#228
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Berks
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damn right I'm doing it again. I don't want ONE PENNY spent on others while our own are hungry, cold and out of work, or homeless. NOT ONE PENNY!
I note that YOU didn't answer either of my questions?
Your last paragraph is ludicrous...coming over here before they could claim benefits? Ho ho, how exactly did they get out from behind their iron curtain, pray tell?
You really are grasping at straws now.
I note that YOU didn't answer either of my questions?
Your last paragraph is ludicrous...coming over here before they could claim benefits? Ho ho, how exactly did they get out from behind their iron curtain, pray tell?
You really are grasping at straws now.
This repeated use of "our own" really shows a lot about your mindset. In case you'd missed it, we're all human. Clinging on to this small minded notion of us and them is just holding the world back.
Now for the last bit. Given the collapse of the Soviet Union was 89/90 and Poland/Romania (for example) joined the EU in 04/07, you've got approximately 15 years where they maybe eligible to come over and work on a short term basis but not claim benefits. Also speaking of not acknowledging points, you fail to acknowledge the fact that 'poor' in the UK really isn't a shadow of what constitutes 'poor' elsewhere in the world.
25 February 2016, 09:11 PM
#229
Still not answered my questions, (and nor has Martin, but no surprise there), so I'll re-post 'em for you:
In your own time.........
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
25 February 2016, 09:34 PM
#230
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Berks
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Still not answered my questions, (and nor has Martin, but no surprise there), so I'll re-post 'em for you:
In your own time.........
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"? its a question of what's reasonably affordable, not knowing the full ins and outs of the countries financials makes defining that pretty difficult.
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks? I've said this twice already, £46 a week is still far more than a lot of the people in poorer countries in Europe/the world earn. Yes in our economy it's not a huge sum but atleast they have a welfare system that provides that support (the same base point applied to food banks).
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)? No, it's a question of balance. Pulling up the drawbridge and pretending it's not our problem is no more right than throwing all our money at overseas aid and screwing UK nationals.
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had??? Welfare systems very rarely reward those that put the money in, it's all wealth redistribution at the end of the day. So yes it was a decent thing, we've reached a point as a country where our economy can handle the loss of these factories. Where as a couple of new factories makes a world of difference to the economies of somewhere like Poland or Romania.
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"? its a question of what's reasonably affordable, not knowing the full ins and outs of the countries financials makes defining that pretty difficult.
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks? I've said this twice already, £46 a week is still far more than a lot of the people in poorer countries in Europe/the world earn. Yes in our economy it's not a huge sum but atleast they have a welfare system that provides that support (the same base point applied to food banks).
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)? No, it's a question of balance. Pulling up the drawbridge and pretending it's not our problem is no more right than throwing all our money at overseas aid and screwing UK nationals.
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had??? Welfare systems very rarely reward those that put the money in, it's all wealth redistribution at the end of the day. So yes it was a decent thing, we've reached a point as a country where our economy can handle the loss of these factories. Where as a couple of new factories makes a world of difference to the economies of somewhere like Poland or Romania.
26 February 2016, 12:26 AM
#231
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This debate was about demographics, or at least it was until you decided to try and turn it into something else and started blathering on about gender.
Is it because you aren't bright enough to know the difference, or is it because you catastrophically misread your own 'killer stats'?
Last edited by Martin2005; 26 February 2016 at 12:33 AM.
26 February 2016, 12:28 AM
#232
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Selfishness is based upon self interest. Whether we stay or leave will probably not much very much difference to me. So you are barking up a very odd tree here.
26 February 2016, 12:51 AM
#233
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Type 25. Build No.34
Posts: 8,222
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LOL at you two bleeding heart liberals.
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Your problem is IAJFEE alright. You just aren't seeing the poverty in this country, the poverty that could be greatly helped by an input of £33.6M per DAY>
Tell me, pray, both of you:
What limits, if any, would you put on "helping those from other countries that need it"?
And how would you justify it to someone with no job on £46 a week jobseekers? To families having to use foodbanks?
Or should we just be selfish towards those people and help those who either haven't helped themselves (Eastern European ex Soviet bloc), or those who can't/won't help themselves by stopping breeding so fast, (Africa)?
Was it, in yout two views, a good and decent thing to do to give the new EC members €billions to build all new hi-tech factories, so that companies like Samsung, LG etc closed factories in the founder member countries and went to the Eastern bloc countries' nice new factories? Was it a good and decent thing to do to OUR people who had paid into the EC for years, or whose parents had???
You two are so full of your own liberal psyche, so blind to what is happening in your own country, so selfish towards your fellow countrymen, it defies belief.
In fact, I don't think anyone could be so selfish...you are on a wind up, aren't you, both of you??
Before I start I do realise that it is a total an utter waste of time discussing anything with you, but just in case there's a half decent human being lurking somewhere within you...
If the net benefit of leaving the EU was actually £33m a day, which of course is incredibly speculative, then yes it could do some good. But if you're that focused on doing good, then why are you not calling for big tax increases, that would make a infinitely bigger difference to the problems you highlight? That would be the selfless position
Who is justifying food banks and low levels of unemployment benefit? Being in the EU or not isn't going to change that.
We should want to help others, wherever they come from, because, relative to most we are in an incredibly privileged position. Some would say it's our moral duty to help - but hell what would I know, I'm just selfish!
As for factories moving East, that's globalisation for you. That's happening all over the world. Of course the irony of your reasoning here is that the UK benefit massively from inward investment, 100,00's jobs have been created, you would risk that investment by having us leave the EU.
Finally you need to go have a look at the difference between being selfish and selfless, because I think you are getting confused.
Last edited by Martin2005; 26 February 2016 at 12:53 AM.
26 February 2016, 08:15 AM
#234
This debate was about demographics, or at least it was until you decided to try and turn it into something else and started blathering on about gender.
Is it because you aren't bright enough to know the difference, or is it because you catastrophically misread your own 'killer stats'?
Is it because you aren't bright enough to know the difference, or is it because you catastrophically misread your own 'killer stats'?
Anyhow, I'm more than bright enough to use a dictionary, the question is though, are you?
Demographics Definition | Investopedia
www.investopedia.com/terms/d/demographics.asp
Demographics are the study of a population based on factors such as age, race, sex, economic status, level of education, income level and employment, among others.
Demographics are the study of a population based on factors such as age, race, sex, economic status, level of education, income level and employment, among others.
26 February 2016, 10:54 AM
#235
As I thought, both Martin and Neil would put foreigners before our own.
So someone who has never paid into the system and probably never will, is put in front of those who have, or whose parents and grandparents did.
Great.
I wonder if they would see either of their families out of work, depressed because of it, hungry, cold, maybe homeless, just so that some foreigners who they feel sorry for could have a nice life?
No? Your liberal ideals don't stretch as far as putting yourself or your families at risk?
Thought not.
IAJFEE, both of you.
So someone who has never paid into the system and probably never will, is put in front of those who have, or whose parents and grandparents did.
Great.
I wonder if they would see either of their families out of work, depressed because of it, hungry, cold, maybe homeless, just so that some foreigners who they feel sorry for could have a nice life?
No? Your liberal ideals don't stretch as far as putting yourself or your families at risk?
Thought not.
IAJFEE, both of you.
26 February 2016, 11:52 AM
#236
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Berks
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As I thought, both Martin and Neil would put foreigners before our own.
So someone who has never paid into the system and probably never will, is put in front of those who have, or whose parents and grandparents did.
Great.
I wonder if they would see either of their families out of work, depressed because of it, hungry, cold, maybe homeless, just so that some foreigners who they feel sorry for could have a nice life?
No? Your liberal ideals don't stretch as far as putting yourself or your families at risk?
Thought not.
IAJFEE, both of you.
So someone who has never paid into the system and probably never will, is put in front of those who have, or whose parents and grandparents did.
Great.
I wonder if they would see either of their families out of work, depressed because of it, hungry, cold, maybe homeless, just so that some foreigners who they feel sorry for could have a nice life?
No? Your liberal ideals don't stretch as far as putting yourself or your families at risk?
Thought not.
IAJFEE, both of you.
As for who has and who hasn't paid into the system, that's how a welfare state works. I really don't see why you're struggling with this.
As for IAJFEE, i'm yet to decide what that's meant to stand for but I'd hazard a guess it's another one of your snappy little made up terms (like miggers for instance).
26 February 2016, 01:06 PM
#237
Scooby Regular
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Epsom
Posts: 5,832
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
26 February 2016, 01:08 PM
#238
Scooby Regular
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Berks
Posts: 4,224
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Cheers, I had a feeling it was something along those lines. Funny how he's trying to say that's the attitude Martin and I are taking, when he's doing a far better job of demonstrating the expected traits.
26 February 2016, 01:12 PM
#239
Glad you are beginning to understand.
The idea of a "welfare state", and the clue is in the second word, was that those who were able to do so should support those from the SAME COUNTRY that couldn't manage to support themselves adequately.
Where on EARTH are you and the other liberal getting the idea that we should facilitate/help/finance/solve the problems of, other countries?
I ask again: would you be as happy to give aid to people outside the UK, who have never put one penny in, and probably never will, if it meant that one of yours, someone close to you or in your family, had to go without for it to happen?
Be honest now...and no fudging it by saying, "that won't/wouldn't happen", since, as you probably know, it HAS happened to one of mine and some of his friends, and IS happening on a weekly basis in the UK.
As for France, yes, we have property there. My buying it helped the retirement of an old french gentleman. Our owning it helps the local economy via renovations, stuff for the aforesaid, worker who work on it for me and in taxes.
I am a nett GIVER to France, and, since we can afford it, just, we are happy to do so.
If I need health care there, it'll either be at home, where we live 9 months of the year, or we will pay for it.
In no way would I expect France to GIVE me anything...not even to subsidise me.
That they DO, (7% TVA on renovations carried out by French-registered tradespersons, instead of 19.6%) is because they VALUE me as someone who pays IN to the system, not someone who takes out.
France seems to have got it right. It's the left-wing liberal UK that's got it wrong.
I'm Alright Jack, **** Everybody Else.........you and Martin to a T...unless the "everybody else" lives OUTSIDE the UK???
Do you hate Brits so much? LOL
The idea of a "welfare state", and the clue is in the second word, was that those who were able to do so should support those from the SAME COUNTRY that couldn't manage to support themselves adequately.
Where on EARTH are you and the other liberal getting the idea that we should facilitate/help/finance/solve the problems of, other countries?
I ask again: would you be as happy to give aid to people outside the UK, who have never put one penny in, and probably never will, if it meant that one of yours, someone close to you or in your family, had to go without for it to happen?
Be honest now...and no fudging it by saying, "that won't/wouldn't happen", since, as you probably know, it HAS happened to one of mine and some of his friends, and IS happening on a weekly basis in the UK.
As for France, yes, we have property there. My buying it helped the retirement of an old french gentleman. Our owning it helps the local economy via renovations, stuff for the aforesaid, worker who work on it for me and in taxes.
I am a nett GIVER to France, and, since we can afford it, just, we are happy to do so.
If I need health care there, it'll either be at home, where we live 9 months of the year, or we will pay for it.
In no way would I expect France to GIVE me anything...not even to subsidise me.
That they DO, (7% TVA on renovations carried out by French-registered tradespersons, instead of 19.6%) is because they VALUE me as someone who pays IN to the system, not someone who takes out.
France seems to have got it right. It's the left-wing liberal UK that's got it wrong.
I'm Alright Jack, **** Everybody Else.........you and Martin to a T...unless the "everybody else" lives OUTSIDE the UK???
Do you hate Brits so much? LOL
26 February 2016, 01:43 PM
#240
France seems to have got it right.
I was asked (not so politely though) earlier for information on the many other countries skirting around the EU's rules and legislation and only applying it when it suits them. At the time I couldn't be arsed to argue or dig out proof of my already informed opinion which I gathered from various sources (and not far right/nationalist ones either), then be demanded to use harvard referencing system to satisfy the whim of a single and somewhat unimportant person on SN.
Anyhoo. France is one of them. Its broken EU legislation on budget deficit reduction (as has Germany for the opposite, google it). It has also blocked take-overs of companies and industries (Alstom - google it) which is against single market legislation (something Itlay is guilt of too, "google" it - pun intended if the well-informed spot it). Then we have the bail outs of its automotive industry. Then we have its energy generator/provider taking state aid and tax breaks, although in that case the EU did manage to get them to pay it back - still, they did try it on. That's just off the top of my head, and I bet if I do some searching, I could probably find more.
I don't knock them for doing it...it is their country afterall
