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EU Referendum

Old 05 November 2016 | 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin2005
Which is why we should never hold referendums


Or at least ones that cannot be upheld. Waste of public money although, it has been a dirty insight to most of the voting population about the realities of democracy.
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
it has been a dirty insight to most of the voting population about the realities of democracy.
Exactly, like all the clueless hypocrites on this thread, who would champion democracy... until the outcome is one they don't agree with.

And then they say others are in denial!
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Creepy
Exactly, like all the clueless hypocrites on this thread, who would champion democracy... until the outcome is one they don't agree with.

And then they say others are in denial!
Bollocks to that; this vote has shown that the electorate cannot be trusted to make decisions. Democracy is an illusion and anyone that thinks otherwise lives in a dreamworld.
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
Or at least ones that cannot be upheld. Waste of public money although, it has been a dirty insight to most of the voting population about the realities of democracy.
what you mean a parliamentary democracy (or are you suggesting we have a democracy via referenda)

all the UK courts have said is that the UK parliament should be consulted on Brexit / Article 50

I have not heard any MP remain or otherwise say we are not going leave the EU

amazing - we have months of the Brexiteers whinge and whine about the sovereignty of the UK courts and UK parliament

when they get it, they whinge and b1tch

laughable and pathetic

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 05 November 2016 at 01:20 PM.
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by trails
Bollocks to that; this vote has shown that the electorate cannot be trusted to make decisions. Democracy is an illusion and anyone that thinks otherwise lives in a dreamworld.
It's because of democracy that you can spout your nonsense without fear of retribution.
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Paben
It's because of democracy that you can spout your nonsense without fear of retribution.
Ditto; nonsense is in the eye of the beholder.

The illusion of democracy allows me to voice an opinion, but the reality is the only choice is what is least worse not what is good. The choices we are offered are the ones we are allowed to choose from, not the ones we want or need.
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by trails
...The choices we are offered are the ones we are allowed to choose from, not the ones we want or need.
A kind of Hobson's Choice.

Last edited by joz8968; 05 November 2016 at 01:40 PM.
Old 05 November 2016 | 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by joz8968
A kind of Hobson's Choice.
Exactly that
Old 05 November 2016 | 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by trails
Bollocks to that; this vote has shown that the electorate cannot be trusted to make decisions. Democracy is an illusion and anyone that thinks otherwise lives in a dreamworld.
Proves my point quite nicely. It's your opinion that the referendum has shown the electorate cannot be trusted. If the outcome had been remain, you would still believe in democracy, because, in your opinion, it would've shown the electorate could be trusted. So, like most of the sore-loser remoaners on this thread, you only believe in democracy when it goes your way. How democratic!
Old 05 November 2016 | 02:46 PM
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The real problem is chumps with no gray matter let loose to decide countries fate
Old 05 November 2016 | 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Creepy
Proves my point quite nicely. It's your opinion that the referendum has shown the electorate cannot be trusted. If the outcome had been remain, you would still believe in democracy, because, in your opinion, it would've shown the electorate could be trusted. So, like most of the sore-loser remoaners on this thread, you only believe in democracy when it goes your way. How democratic!
Missed the point, no surprise given how you voted. What I said was democracy is an illusion and that statement stands regardless of the Brexit vote result.

There should never have been a referendum because (as has been proven by the results) most people cant see beyond the end of their own nose. That includes those that would have voted remain but were too lazy too because they thought the result was a forgone conclusion.

So you crack on chuckling and having a gloat with your witty remoaners label, but let's see where we are in a year or in five years.
Old 05 November 2016 | 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dpb
The real problem is chumps with no gray matter let loose to decide countries fate
Which this thread proves in spades. We are all doomed I tell thee
Old 05 November 2016 | 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by trails
Ditto; nonsense is in the eye of the beholder.

The illusion of democracy allows me to voice an opinion, but the reality is the only choice is what is least worse not what is good. The choices we are offered are the ones we are allowed to choose from, not the ones we want or need.
Originally Posted by trails
Missed the point, no surprise given how you voted. What I said was democracy is an illusion and that statement stands regardless of the Brexit vote result.

There should never have been a referendum because (as has been proven by the results) most people cant see beyond the end of their own nose. That includes those that would have voted remain but were too lazy too because they thought the result was a forgone conclusion.

So you crack on chuckling and having a gloat with your witty remoaners label, but let's see where we are in a year or in five years.
And you hope we'll be down and out by then just to prove you were right. What a loser's attitude
Old 05 November 2016 | 03:58 PM
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in other news

the Indian trade minister was on the radio this morning

asked what they would be seeking re any trade deal with the UK (i,e giving UK firms access to the Indian market)

he said - a much higher VISA quota for Indian workers to come to the UK would be near the top of the list

presumably our response and battle cry will be to sit across the negotiating table and shout

"Brexit means Brexit"

lol!!
Old 05 November 2016 | 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
in other news

the Indian trade minister was on the radio this morning

asked what they would be seeking re any trade deal with the UK (i,e giving UK firms access to the Indian market)

he said - a much higher VISA quota for Indian workers to come to the UK would be near the top of the list

presumably our response and battle cry will be to sit across the negotiating table and shout

"Brexit means Brexit"

lol!!
Old 05 November 2016 | 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
in other news

the Indian trade minister was on the radio this morning

asked what they would be seeking re any trade deal with the UK (i,e giving UK firms access to the Indian market)

he said - a much higher VISA quota for Indian workers to come to the UK would be near the top of the list

presumably our response and battle cry will be to sit across the negotiating table and shout

"Brexit means Brexit"

lol!!
Yes, if, as the result of this Brexit, we might have to replace one bunch of foreigners with another bunch, then Brexit is just a losing game.
Old 05 November 2016 | 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by hodgy0_2
what you mean a parliamentary democracy (or are you suggesting we have a democracy via referenda)

all the UK courts have said is that the UK parliament should be consulted on Brexit / Article 50

I have not heard any MP remain or otherwise say we are not going leave the EU

amazing - we have months of the Brexiteers whinge and whine about the sovereignty of the UK courts and UK parliament

when they get it, they whinge and b1tch

laughable and pathetic

As Martin partly alluded to, if it's down to parliament to decide, the public referendum is a pointless excercise.
Old 05 November 2016 | 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Paben
And you hope we'll be down and out by then just to prove you were right. What a loser's attitude
What a daft comment, when have I said or even implied that...don't try lowering my thought process to your level; I sincerely hope I'm wrong and the magic beans work.
Old 05 November 2016 | 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Turbohot
Yes, if, as the result of this Brexit, we might have to replace one bunch of foreigners with another bunch, then Brexit is just a losing game.
and this is what those that voted to leave still fail to see...Brexit; redefining obtuse since 2016.
Old 05 November 2016 | 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by trails
Ditto; nonsense is in the eye of the beholder.

The illusion of democracy allows me to voice an opinion, but the reality is the only choice is what is least worse not what is good. The choices we are offered are the ones we are allowed to choose from, not the ones we want or need.
Originally Posted by trails
What a daft comment, when have I said or even implied that...don't try lowering my thought process to your level; I sincerely hope I'm wrong and the magic beans work.

You're constant whining attitude gives you away. Man up and accept it is what it is.
Old 05 November 2016 | 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by ALi-B
As Martin partly alluded to, if it's down to parliament to decide, the public referendum is a pointless excercise.
Well that's why we don't have democracy by referendum

We have a parliamentary democracy (something that the brexiters seem to have forgotten)

Act of parliaments are required to both grant and remove peoples rights

People need to understand the difference between government and parliament

As martin pointed out it was a binary choice but with hundreds of outcomes

It was a nonsense - if we were going to have one it should have been subject to ratification when we all knew what the final deal was

That's why Cameron will go down as most damaging and disastrous PM in modern history

Brexiters are fantasist and hypocrites, their arguments, if they can muster one that goes beyond "Brexit means Brexit" are based on ignorance are incoherent and use faulty logic

The real reason the government do not want UK parliamentary scrutiny of their plans - is they simply don't have any and are **** scared the public will notice

Witness the new industrial policy for the car industry - secret back room deals

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 05 November 2016 at 06:31 PM.
Old 05 November 2016 | 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Paben
You're constant whining attitude gives you away. Man up and accept it is what it is.
Lordy its almost as though you are trying to pick a fight. Fail; I thought half term was over.

Why don't you trawl back through the thread and quote some whining, it'll be fun.

Just because I dont like the result doesn't mean I don't accept it. There is no going back...but I'm not sure why you would think the result would change my opinon and therefore my outlook.

I'm open to suggestions as to how I should man up...hit me up bruv.

Last edited by trails; 05 November 2016 at 07:47 PM.
Old 05 November 2016 | 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Uncle Creepy
Proves my point quite nicely. It's your opinion that the referendum has shown the electorate cannot be trusted. If the outcome had been remain, you would still believe in democracy, because, in your opinion, it would've shown the electorate could be trusted. So, like most of the sore-loser remoaners on this thread, you only believe in democracy when it goes your way. How democratic!
Yes because of course all the Fexiteers would've taken it in the chin and got on with life had they lost...
Old 05 November 2016 | 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by trails
Missed the point, no surprise given how you voted. What I said was democracy is an illusion and that statement stands regardless of the Brexit vote result.

There should never have been a referendum because (as has been proven by the results) most people cant see beyond the end of their own nose. That includes those that would have voted remain but were too lazy too because they thought the result was a forgone conclusion.

So you crack on chuckling and having a gloat with your witty remoaners label, but let's see where we are in a year or in five years.
I'm afraid you've missed the point, but I suspect this is often the case (no surprise, given how you voted).

You're just another sore loser repeating the same rubbish: we shouldn't have had a referendum... those who voted leave shouldn't be allowed to have a vote... the leave campaign was based on a lie... leave voters are now chuckling and gloating.

Point me to where the leave voters have gloated on this thread since the referendum outcome. I think we've all been very humble given the arrogance of the remainers.
Old 05 November 2016 | 10:35 PM
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Anyone interesting in reading the actual posts rather than rants

Page 70 is about June 21 - interesting to re-read the comments

Page 80 and onwards is the June 23 - that's when it gets interesting

I can see unit a lot of crowing from the outers not much moaning from the inner tbh

But then I would probably say that


Anyway it is all there in black and white, as I said fascinating reading

This one is from BMWhere caught my eye (page 70 is think)

"For me, the big problem in the Leave argument is the complete lack of a plan for the future post brexit! Hope and optimism for a better future is all well and good, but blind optimism is suicide"

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 05 November 2016 at 10:38 PM.
Old 06 November 2016 | 01:40 AM
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I'm starting to get tired of being called a remoaner.

I most certainly am not, I am 100% committed to the idea that we are leaving and I obviously want us to make the best of this.

What I want is the government to do this lawfully, in good faith, and to be held to account for what they do. This is surely not controversial?

The government is not negotiating on behalf of the 17 million people who voted leave, but for the 60 odd million people who inhabit these isles.

Whatever the final settlement is means less to us than it will for the generations to come, so please enough of the 'let's just get this done now', this is too important for expediency.
Old 06 November 2016 | 01:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin2005
I'm starting to get tired of being called a remoaner.

I most certainly am not, I am 100% committed to the idea that we are leaving and I obviously want us to make the best of this.

What I want is the government to do this lawfully, in good faith, and to be held to account for what they do. This is surely not controversial?

The government is not negotiating on behalf of the 17 million people who voted leave, but for the 60 odd million people who inhabit these isles.

Whatever the final settlement is means less to us than it will for the generations to come, so please enough of the 'let's just get this done now', this is too important for expediency.

Well I don't want to leave. I think it's the most stupid decision UK has made for years. dl
Old 06 November 2016 | 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Martin2005
I'm starting to get tired of being called a remoaner.

I most certainly am not, I am 100% committed to the idea that we are leaving and I obviously want us to make the best of this.

What I want is the government to do this lawfully, in good faith, and to be held to account for what they do. This is surely not controversial?

The government is not negotiating on behalf of the 17 million people who voted leave, but for the 60 odd million people who inhabit these isles.

Whatever the final settlement is means less to us than it will for the generations to come, so please enough of the 'let's just get this done now', this is too important for expediency.
The irony is there is a strong undemocratic, authoritarian and hypocritical streak among the Brexiters

Remember they b1tched and moaned about the extra day the website was going to be kept open for voter registrations - due to a website crash

Because they thought the new voter registrations would negatively effect the result!!!

Remember the accusations of voter fraud - even before voting day

Remember Farage saying if it was close he would keep on fighting keep on b1tching and moaning

Remember the petition to rerun the vote was created by a Brexiteer (oh the irony)

Remember when Farage, during the night when he thought he had lost, said He would campaign for a revote

Remember all the rubbish about Parliamentry democracy and the power/independence of our courts

Last edited by hodgy0_2; 06 November 2016 at 07:58 AM.
Old 06 November 2016 | 08:48 AM
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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc...roid-orange-gb


So we're back to Free movement of workers after all
Old 06 November 2016 | 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by dpb
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.bbc...roid-orange-gb

So we're back to Free movement of workers after all
Originally Posted by Turbohot
Yes, if, as the result of this Brexit, we might have to replace one bunch of foreigners with another bunch, then Brexit is just a losing game.
See this is the bit I'm looking forward to most about Brexit, the moment they all realise that it's not going to pan out how they thought.

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