Scooby Dooby Blue

Heres my predicament
I wrote off my UK300 last year. I was in a 60, lost it on a corner, spun 180 then rolled into a golf course
Plod have hit me with a Section 3 (Undue care n attention).
Their traffic expert has calculated i was doing 47.9mph at the corner and reckons i was going a bit faster before that.
Here's my proposal...
The car was wearing lovely 18s, on P Zero tyres.
Is there any truth to the theory that low profile tyres have less grip in a skid? My logic behind this is they have less of a flat-spot so when skidding (sideways), the surface area offering resistance to the road is less.
If anyone knows of anything documented that might help my cause, or can offer any other (serious) theory that might stand up in court, i'd be most grateful

Paul

Mo

50 in a 60, how's that driving with undue care and attention.

Unless ofcourse there are witnesses to state otherwise?

Gordo

You still lost it on the bend though, so even if your theory is correct, the fact is you had pushed it beyond the limit to provoke the skid. i.e. driving too fast for the road/conditions.

Good luck.

Gordo

Mo

May be you sneezed as you turned in which made you jerk the steering wheel, you panicked, lifted off of the throttle and off you span.

How did you crash?

Dave T-S

I think you mean footprint, not flat spot. We did this one to death in an S03 thread last year.

If you want plod to get hold of some road tests/track day pics and see how much lateral grip an Impreza on 18's can pull and use it as part of the case for the prosecution, feel free to get shot down in flames.....

The car won't fall over if it is standing in your driveway, so whichever way you go about it they will state you were using excessive speed for the road/conditions, so you will have to take the rap.....

Not having a go at you, just stating the likely outcome.

[Edited by Dave T-S - 3/5/2002 4:08:28 PM]

Jolly Green Monster 2

I was in a similar situation just over a year ago...

I lost it on an Sbend etc...

I wasn't up to going to court and re-living it all.. perhaps I should have would have shown the court that I was suffering already I suppose.

Anyway I sent off the guilty by post and got 6points and £200 for a CD10... Driving without due care and attention.

They way I was told it was that they compare you to Mr Average who is a confident and competent driver. Would Mr Average travelled at 50mph around that bend in those road conditions?

I felt that there could have been a problem with my car, and as far as I aware it was not inspected by the Police. They were not interested when I tried to make the point about mechanical failure etc..

Goodluck

JGM

DTurn

As one of those experts, here is the simple answer (which is the only one likely to be used in court).

The size and aspect ratio of the tyre have no effect on the maximum speed (give or take 10%) that you can take the corner at. It is true that the rate at which the tyre breaks away is somewhat dependent (wide and thin tyres tend to be a lot less progressive at the limit) on the tyre. I've done loads of tests with everything from Scoobies to Nissan Micras to prove the fact.

As for the 'joe public' driver argument as to decide culpability, this is implicit in the Road Traffic Act which defines the 'standard' for driving as what is reasonable to the average driver. Generally speaking the normal limits of lateral acceleration (sideways G) on the road are less than 0.4G and the typical limit for a tyre to corner AND remain stable is around 0.7G. The type of marks you leave when you lose it on a bend are called 'critical curve' marks and only appear at around 0.65g and above. So basically if you have left the marks you aren't driving with due care and attention.

Note however, that all the calculated speeds from these marks should have a tolerance of plus or minus 10% if they are critical curve marks. Not of much use to you, but any expert quoting to 1 decimal place is asking for trouble.

RICH WILD

Hi,

Were all the tyres in tact after the crash? Could a blow out have caused it?

Everyone seems to be calling your driving but you may have hit diesel or anything. Did you check the road surface for such things after? We get used to cornering in our cars faster than others do, so just because everyone else went round ok, doesn't mean there wasn't a spillage.

The reason I ask this is that the same thing happened to me about 8 years ago in a Sierra XR4X4 in the wet. I had a blow out on the bend and lost it totally. Ended up in a big smash. Fortunately the copper that turned up was in an XR4x4 too and he said "I drive these things all the time and you'd have to have been going like a nutter to lose it on that bend unless something went wrong with the car". Eye witnesses said that I wasn't driving too fast.

Later inspection confirmed huge puncture in one tyre. Result - wasn't reckless driving or whatever.

I was only 22 at the time and a bit of a novice, so I might as well have taken my seatbelt off and got in the back when it happened - no control at all.

Check the vehicle over, if not already. May not be your fault after all.