Scooby_uk

Hi

I've recently bought a set of wheels, and decided to enquire about spogit rings. I’m told without these the wheels will shake as though they’re not balanced. I've read a few posts on here too with people assuming its the balancing thats out... (Not to mention being dangerous as the weight isnt being carried by the hub, as it should).

When I bought the wheels I was told they were from a Golf MKIV (from the person I bought them from)… ok, thats fine. I know the bore size for that is 57.1mm.

But when I measured the bore as a double check it's 56.1mm. So I thought may be they were badly fitted to the golf...?! As often after market wheels are.

They’re to go on a Celica (i.e. I know the Golf MKIV and the Celica both have 5x100 fitment), but the Celica has bore size 54.1.

So I either need 2mm spigot rings or 3mm spigot rings. (I can't work out which). Is it 57.1 - 54.1 = 3mm or 56.1 - 54.1 = 2mm?!


I’ve not really been able to get any real comprehensive advice on this from wheel companies. They say seem to think it’ll be 57.1 if they were on a golf and couldn’t possibly be 56.1.

Am I measuring it in the right place? The hole is tapered. Red line shows the inside of the hole and yellow shows the outer tapered ring.





Also does anyone know of a company that do rings that small?

otherwise can they be custom made?


Any advice much appreciated!

Phil.A

The red line in the photo is the one that matters the yellow is to allow the
wheel to bolt over the spigot some times the the spigot has a radius and this is to allow for that.
If you need any alloy spacer making drop me a pm I have done a few sets

Phil

Scooby_uk

Thanks for the offer Phil. Think I may take you up on that. I need to be 100% sure I’m getting the right info from the wheel first though. Do you make them from Plastic or Alloy? I guess there is a little leeway if its plastic as the wheels can be pressed on?

A few people have advised that its improbable that these wheels have a bore of 56.1mm and that Fox wheels are either 60.1mm or 73.1mm bore.


The picture isn’t great but you can see that’s its more likely 56.1mm and not 60 or 73mm.



I’m measuring it in the right place aren’t I? Difficult to tell where the middle is exactly but approx on the blue dots.

All help and advice much appreciated!
AB

Alg

I can't work out whether you're saying they're off a MK4 Golf or a Celica or if you've found out they're off an Impreza.

In the last pic the distance between the blue dots (if the r/h dot was moved up to a curved line between centres of the two adjacent holes) would give you the PCD of what looks like 100mm which is the 100 part of a 5x100 measurement. Nothing to do with centre bore.

Volkswagen Mk4 wheels should be 5x100 et35-38 and with a bore of 57.1mm
If they're off a MK4 Golf you'ld need a .5mm thick spigot to make 1mm total when both sides of the circle are added but do they make them this small?)

If they are 56.1mm then that's Impreza then they should fit ok of course.

If they're off a Celica then the Celica's got a centre bore of 54.1mm
So you'ld have a difference of 3mm or 1.5mm each side.
Youl'd need 1.5mm thick spigot rings to fit them.

The make of wheel won't matter. It's what car it was fitted to unless Fox only made wheels to fit cars with only two specific bore sizes.

Why not just give one a trial fit?

scottstotty

Have you also checked to see if their isnt a Spigot ring already in the wheel. Fox did use aluminium rings which once fitted looked like there was not a ring in place as they were very tight. you can test by taking centre cap off and tapping with sharp instrument on back side to see so.

If not just contact the fox distributer with the part number on wheel and they may be able to give you more info of the spec "if they can be arsed!"

UK Distributors BBS Alloy Wheels Fox Racing RS OZ Toyo Tyres

Scott

Scooby_uk

Alg,

The wheels are supposedly from a MK4 Golf, but the bore (from my measurements) suggests they were off a Imprezza. I want to fit them to a Celica.

I know the PCD and offset are fine. I’d trial fit the wheels but I don’t think I would notice if the bore was 1mil too big on the wheels until the car was on the motorway at speed (from the shaking). Would 1mm be worth getting spacers for? A lot of people don’t bother with them but I want a smooth ride and am told the car will shake as though the wheels need rebalancing.

Af

Scooby_uk

Scott

This may be a very valid point. When I took the centre cap off to take pics there was a tiny raised lip on the inside closest to the hub. About the width of a spigot I guess. It looks like it was very much part of the wheel to be though. I did take a long hard look but couldn’t seen any joints etc.

I contacted Fox distributors yesterday from that site you’ve posted, but was told to take it to RSR for them to have a look.


Af

Chelspeed

What sort of wheel nuts do they use? Tapered seat or parallel sleeve?

In both cases I've always understood that the wheel is located by the wheel nuts, either by the taper washer centreing itself in the tapered seat or by the parallel sleeve being a tight fit in the bore of the wheel. In my view the locating ring in the centre is nothing more than an aid to fitting, it locates the wheel until the nuts are fitted. Without it you need two hands to hold rthe wheel and a third to fit the nuts. Provided the hole in the wheel is bigger than the lump on the hub I really wouldn't worry about it.

I think whoever told you about wheels behaving as if they're not balanced if there are no spigot rings is talking b*ll*cks.

Of course all of the above relies on you having the right taper on the wheel nut washers or the right diameter sleeve nuts. Try and fit it with the wrong taper or too small diameter sleeves then the spigot may get you out of trouble but you shouldn't rely on it to centre wheels.

Alg

I read somewhere that the weight of the wheel etc was taken by the centre bore and the studs were only for location. I also read that having the wheel mounted only on the studs (wheel/hub bore sizes different) meant that you could shear a stud or studs. How true that is I don't know and I've never heard of it happening to anyone. It may happen in motorsport. Anyone?
I've fitted wheels where the centre bore of the wheel was different to that on the hub but that was back in the 80's and 90's (I'm old) and I didn't get any adverse ride problems.
I wouldn't want to give you bad advice so probably best to get an expert wheel supplier's view.
As Scott says, are you sure there aren't spigot rings fitted already?
Perhaps they were off a MK4 Golf and have spigot rings fitted to reduce the bore size to the Celica size?

Scooby_uk

The info about wheels feeling as though they’re not balanced is from a major wheels distributor. He didn’t sound like a monkey so I assumed he knew what he was talking about. I mean distributors should know about things like this, right?

He said that you could try to balance the wheel until the cows come home but until the wheel is sitting centrally on the hug it will shake.

The other (more worrying) issue is regarding the weight of the car being on the bolts. Apparently it shouldn’t be. They’re designed to hold the wheel upright and against the hub. Not take the weight for the car. The hub is supposed to do that.

The bolt I use are tapered however heres some info I found on the net...

PCD and Offset explained

Chelspeed

Think about the peak load on the wheel. Is it the weight of the car when you're stationary? No of course not, it's the moment when you stand on the middle pedal at 155mph (on a track needlessly to say) and your AP 6 pots and slick tyres try and stop 1500kg of scoobie.

Where's that load going? Through the spigot ring? Obviously not because this load is trying to stop the wheel rotating and in this situation the spigot ring can't help because the wheel can rotate around the spigot. All of this load, and the acceleration load can only be taken thorough the wheel studs and nuts. This is exactly what they are designed for.

That article from "Nice Wheels" made me giggle. The spigot ring takes the weight of the car and the studs just hold the wheel on the hub. If that was the case the wheels studs would be 1 or 2 off M6 grubscrews like the ones that locate the disc. But they're not they're 5 off M12 studs, that should tell you something. Also ask yourself why the studs are made of steel and the spigot ring is made of aluminium or even plastic (but it is hard plastic so that's OK). If you want an enginnering reply don't ask a salesman!

Trust me the studs are more than man enough to take the weight of the car without shearing off. And the spigot ring is there to locate the wheel before the taper of the wheel nut washer takes over the job.

Scooby_uk

Chelspeed

I'm seeing the logic there but what about the vibrations which will apparently be caused? God! Didn’t know this was such a Grey Area!!!

I do however have tapered Nuts for the wheels so these should be better than standard, and should stop the wheels moving... right?

It’s a 1.5mm gap… How bad can that be…

555Rob555

If the wheels are torqued up on tapered nuts/studs, they will already be pulled central. That is what the taper is for. If there were flat nuts and washers outside of the wheel, it would be possible (without a spigot) to torque the wheel up slightly off center, causing vibration.

When matey at the tyre fitters balances your wheels, does he fit spigots for the machine, or does he just spin on a big tapered center lock?

Chelspeed

> When matey at the tyre fitters balances your wheels, does he fit spigots
> for the machine, or does he just spin on a big tapered center lock?

Good point.

Alg

Scooby_uk have a look through this. In times of doubt it'll help. There's so much info on it but it's a bit of a long read so I can't be arsed to see if it's got anything about your spigot/centre bore question.
Car Bibles : The Wheel and Tyre Bible