Steve vRS

If used with uprated pads/discs/fluid, are the standard UK 4 pots or standard STi equipment good enough for track use?

Steve

gregh

depends on how long you stay out, how fast you drive, when you brake, ambient temperature and probably many other things!

Greg

Gussie Cup

Steve

At Donnington on 13/01 two friends of mine went out with standard UK 4-pots but had Mintex 1155 pads and uprated fluid.

You could feel the fade after about 15-20 minutes of each session. Both were smoking when they came in but the pedal feel recovered and both are still driving on the same pads with no problems.

The previous time on a track with totally standard brakes, they cooked!! I guess the pad/fluid upgrade was a help this time round.

Gussie Cup

Just thought I should mention:

I went out with 2-pots and standard pads/fluid etc...... First session fade was very evident.

Second session out they died after about 10 laps and it didn't feel safe to carry on so I had to stop

However, North Hants Tyres were in the pits and replaced my cr@p setup with EBC vented/grooved discs and EBC red pads

Have to wait till next time (Donno 18th ) to try them out. I'd like to go for a major upgrade but cost blah blah blah - I'll see how I get on this time........

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Steve

Good question, I'm trying DS2000 pads F+R at Oulton first (got std 4 pots), then I'll upgrade to better discs later. I guess when funds allow I'll get AP calipers and braided hoses. I'm not sure what improvement the fluid will make though?

Wish I had a sugar daddy like Harj then I could buy everything straight away.

F

simo

I am running ds2000s f/r, braided hoses & dot4 fluid & now prodrive front discs. Last track day before I go for a big brake kit so I am not sure how good they will be.

Floyd, I am leaving mk for Oulton sat am, what time are you going?

simon

Floyd

iTrader: (9)

Simo

I don't know yet, It's yet to be arranged with a mate. If you want to meet up then that's fine with me.

One question about the DS2000 rears, mine didn't fit with out 'adjustment', did you have any trouble?

email me.
F

Steve vRS

However, North Hants Tyres were in the pits and replaced my cr@p setup with EBC vented/grooved discs and EBC red pads


I had Red-stuffs on my humble Puma for a track day and they didn't last the day. They faded after about 15min of hard use and also wore down extremely quickly. DS3000's were a better bet but they shagged the discs.

Steve

kryten

I also got EBC discs + pads (green) from Tyres N.

Anyone compared the Red/Yellow pads for trackday usage?

I'll want to change the greens for the next time out and just wondered whether to go for Reds or whether there is any point going for Yellow (and any downside?).

I assume the Yellows will need more warming up, but do they eat the discs?

simo

Floyd

both changes on the rears went straight in, 2nd set brought thru tyres northampton who put them in for the same price that I paid for the pads only at the dealer

Mo

I am running standard 4-pots, until funds allow - I just dont bother braking so late, I know that they aren't capable of this kind of consistent abuse. It is a track day, not a race, so it doesn't bother me when I get out braked.

Neil F

Steve.

There was a bit of a discussion on this following my Brands Hatch trackday last year.
I run an STi4 and, for Brands, I fitted Mintex 1155 pads front and rear.
I never had any fade all day and was out for the full 1/2 hour on every session (I had ABS kick late into on session so I was pushing!).
One STi5 owner was, shall we say, sceptical about my claims. I then thought about the differences between an STi4 and 5.
The STi4 has the eary bumper with brake ducting under the indicators. This was deleted on the STi5/late bumper models.
A guy posted some details on here about some ducting he'd made subsequent to this issue and the results were good (apparently).
For my money I would concentrate on getting some air to your disks as the first brake upgrade!

So, if you run a V4 you will probably be fine, a V5 might not be so good.
Hope this helps.

Neil.

Steve vRS

I just dont bother braking so late, I know that they aren't capable of this kind of consistent abuse. It is a track day, not a race, so it doesn't bother me when I get out braked.

It's better to brake hard and late so that over the course of a lap, the pads are not in contact with the disks for as lond and so have longer to cool.

Steve

Trout

iTrader: (1)

I have done (my limited track days) with two set-ups.

First of all, Pagid Blues FR and Goodridge hoses front and rear. I 'thought' the braking was very good, certainly after twenty minutes at Donington the car was still fine, althought the pedal was softening. I also thought I was braking hard.

My second track day with the same set up, I was completely blown away by a UK car with AP 4 pots.

I then upgraded to AP 6-pots - the difference was staggering, it took me all morning to truly understand the improvement in braking capability - and the difference is staggering.

IMHO have a go, even if only as a passenger, in a car with AP/ALCON/Brembo set up and you should feel a significant difference.

The other main difference is that psychologically with big brakes you can drive with so much more confidence - you are right, it is not a race, but to fully drive out the straights and then know your brakes will really pull you up is great.

Lap times, not that I know what they are, are hugely improved by decent brakes and the added confidence in the car. Again, IMHO, the AP type upgrade enables the cars braking the genuinly match its performance both on road and track.

It is also the best value upgrade in terms of track performance, you would need to add an awful lot of BHP AND track experience AND driver training to match the easy 10s per lap the brakes will give you.

R

Neil F

I agree with Rannoch that big brake upgrades add braking power and confidence and improve track performance, and if I did more track days I would go this way myself.
If like me however, you can't/don't want to spend £1400 on brakes just for the odd track day, then the Mintex/fluid upgrades are a good cheap compromise to allow you to safely experience the thrill of driving on a track.
I also think that brake ducting is important to any performance setup and is something that is lacking on later cars (unless you opt for the aftermarket solutions available).
My example seemed to say a lot for that argument.

Anyone that thinks that standard Impreza brakes are poo incidentally should drive an Elise or Elan. They don't get a chance to fade, they seem to be "faded" out of the box!

Neil.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

That's 'cos the Elise has no servo so they just feel like they're fading!

Personally I think Elise brakes are superb, just hard work. And don't forget Elises are 40 odd % lighter than a Scoob!

I would also reiterate that the APs although agreed, very expensive, are also a big improvement or everyday road driving, as opposed to some of the other kits.

Would I have bought them just for the road - no. Could I go back to standard Sti 4 pots just for road driving - NO!

Cheers,

R

Neil F

Rannoch.

Your probably right about the servo/Elise thing and almost definitely right about the 6 pots; if I'd have tried them, I wouldn't be able to downgrade either!

All I know about the Lotus's (Lotii?) is that I have friends who own an Elise and an Elan (servo'd?), and after them having a go in the Scooby they handed over the keys of their cars and said something like "even though this won't be as fast as yours, for Christ sake watch out for the brakes!".
Good advice as I remember only too well!

Both cars however, were great fun other than the brakes and a strange cable-remote-gearshift arrangement on the Elan.

Neil.

Neil F

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Stef

Rannoch.
UK car with 4 pots???

Stef.

Trout

iTrader: (1)

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AndyMc

I have a my98 and have fitted Subaru 4 pots and standard pads. Last October I did a trackday at Oulton.The brakes were fairly new and despite my best efforts they were completely unfade-able.

They started to drone/rumble early in the day and the pedal went very spongy which didn't fill me with confidence, but as the day progressed I realised they were still working well.
By the end of the day I knew the track well enough to push really hard and stayed out for 40 minutes with out problems.

The rumbling/droning continued for a couple of weeks afterwards but eventually went away,I think this was caused by scoring on the disc surface as this also took a couple of weeks to go.
3 months on and the discs and pads are buggered and would definitely not take that much stick now.The trackday reduced their life by quite a bit.

If my experience is anything to go by the amount of wear plays a large part in how well they perform, so if you have fairly new standard Subaru 4 pots you should be OK at a track like Oulton.
You should also be OK with uprated pads/discs, assuming they are actually better than the standard parts and from my experience this is not necessarily true

Any body now if Oulton Park is hard on the brakes?

One other thing,my car has the brake ducts as mentioned by NeilF so this could make them work better on my car

Andy

[This message has been edited by AndyMc (edited 26 January 2001).]