ric

Fast Road use of MY98, what brake upgrade makes sense?
There are a few options to choose:

1. Keep the 2pots and fit aftermarket pads and steel braided hoses (maybe slotted
and drilled discs...)

2. Fit the 4pot of the MY99 (with aftermarket pads, braided hoses and
drilled/slotted discs...)

3. Fit an AP/Tarox/Brembo/Porsche Biturbo - KIT

???? Any suggestions ???
ric

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Owning a MY98 car with your first option, I would say got for at least option 2.

Quite a few sets of 4 pot brakes available 2nd hand for sensible money, which would seem the best option.

Option 3 would of course be better, but it's harder to justify the cost if you never venture out onto the track.

Swiss Steve

Hi Rich

Steve here - from the top of the hill

Don't forget about our evergreen Homologation problem here !
Also - we can only fit disks in Switzerland with a maximum of 25 holes and/or grooves.

Talk to Mike again - he fitted the TAROX front kit (standard diam 294mm with FERODO pads and St.St braided hoses - he loves it - and all homologated).

Hr Ueli Jent at the main Emil Frey dealership on Badenerstr. in Zurich has a modified Legacy turbo. He fitted DERROK (?) Fr & Rr disks from Germany (also homologated).

But with what you found out from the Strassenverkehrsamt about fitting the ScoobySport, Magnex exhausts... maybe it's a bit more flexible than this...

Doc

I too have a UK MY98 and I have just fitted some ex P1 4 pots, discs and pads, along with braided hoses and DOT 5.1 fluid. This has produced a noticeable difference but you can still get them to fade. Next step is grooved discs and uprated pads.

Galaf

Just a little off topic I know, but did any of you had troubles with a scoobysport in Switzerland. I have one on my MY99 in Basel but never really checked if it was legal

Laurent

scoobymike

Hi Richie

just drove a Scoob with 2 pot brakes. It was just terrible. They're not at all up to the job even on a standard car. Simple and easy they're just dangerous. Then swapping back to my car my upgrade felt like Porsche brakes. With the old ones you have to push at sixty as hard as I have to at 160 (kmh! not miles).
So again before even thinking about upgrading the engine go for the brakes and suspension.
As I've mentioned already several times to you I never had any fading with the Tarox disc and Ferodo DS 2000 and steel braided hoses. Can't tell yet how it will feel on the track but just for several track days during the year I won't spend more money on even better brakes. And at Veltheim I outbraked every other car without any problem.
Additionally I have to say that with 17inch wheels and 215 tyres you increase the braking power again.
But then compared to the Porsche Biturbo from Tecart I could enjoy I have to admit that every other brake is crap.

See ya soon
Mike

scoobymike

Hi Laurant

The problem is when the police catches you and notices the backbox you have to get it off and show the car at the "Strassenverkehrsamt". Oh, forgot to mention the fine!!
Another problem is when you're involved in an accident and the case has to be sorted out by your insurance they can refuse to pay anything.
But there some tricks, just mail me offline

Cheers
Mike

John Gorman

I have a MY94 on 2 pots and ripped the brakes apart at a track day. after making many enquieries and being on a very tight budget i decided to go for groupN spec. my choice was all EBC, with gpN discs all round with kevlar pads in the rear and carbon metalic(redstuff) pads in the front and dot 5.1 fluid. brakes are now stunning solid pedal and no fade. All this for 300 quid all round. Cant be bad. Its now well capable of locking up at over 100 mph. got them from SEJOC 01375 846401 (www.sejoc.co.uk)Kevin is very helpfull. They can supply big brake conversions if different specs.
CHEERS

Triggaaar

John,
Have you tried your setup on the track yet? And if so, how hard have you pushed (many laps, hard breaking etc)? Sounds like a bargain if it's up to track days.

Stef

The EBC Red Stuff pads are not carbon metallic, and they will not survive on track for very long. I only managed 35 laps at Donno before they were completely gone. "That's about right" was the reply from EBC.
They are not great from cold on the road either.
Gp N discs may also suffice on the road, but are not that much different to OE discs on track, as they're not much different anyway!
It's been said before, but IMHO if you want to enjoy the track to the full, you HAVE to have a full conversion, no compromise.
On the road though, these alternatives may be adequate.
My mate has just fitted the new EBC 'Turbo Groove' discs to his Scooby with Green Stuff pads, and I was very impressed with it.

Stef.

John Gorman

I havent been on the track yet. 23rd of July at Knockhill will be the first test. I drive VERY HARD on the road and they`re spot on. Wot a differance. The front pads dont work right until 150 degrees but work perfect till 750 degrees. Your fluid will have given up before then. There is a full race pad available but not reccomended on the road. If they warp they`re replaced under warranty. They do need a good bit of running in. As they coat the discs thus cutting down disc wear.. I have full EBC applications lists for all makes and models.(price list too) Or phone Kevin He`s brill.

CHEERS

John

[This message has been edited by John Gorman (edited 11-07-2000).]

sasim

Iv'e just fitted EBC turbo grooved disks and Mintex 1155's, so far the brakes are absolutely crap, but I've only done 250 miles so hopefully they will get much better (the EBC lit said that it may take upto 600 miles to bed in). I'll keep you posted

I might have to get the brake system purged and re-filled as I may have contaminated the fluid silly me using a bit of dyed paper towel to remove the excess fluid (embarassment smiley thing here)

Stuart

AndyMc

Hi

I have recently fitted some brand new 4 pots to my my98 and would also recommend option 2

They seem well up to the job of enthuiastic road use,for example I did four stops from 120mph to 60 mph one after the other (on a quiet piece of road ) and they were fine,I think if you were driving pretty hard at around 80 mph(typical use I would imagine)they would be very difficult to fade.

They would probably be even better with uprated pads/discs.

ColinU

Ric... having an MY98 too, I agree with JohnS that option2 (4pots) is the best option without spending silly money. Unfortunately for me my wheels aren't compatible with 4pots .

John Gorman... EBC greenstuff at Knockhill. I tried that and they were well sh@gged after 2 hours of "relatively mild" (for me ) driving. I'll be at Knockhill too on the 22nd so it'll be interesting to see how you get on. If you want a chat mine's the blue 4dr, gold wheels, driving lamps behind the grill, S??CPU.

- ColinU.

Stef

John.

I also used the Yellow Stuff pads, and their on track performance far exceeded that of the Red Stuff. So too, suprisingly, did their on-road performance! They worked much better from cold, and the bite was phenomenal.
The Red Stuff didn't inspire any confidence at all on the road, especially when cold, which in my opinion is unacceptable for any brake set-up.
Only my experiences of course, but I would advise anyone just wanting a decent fast road pad to give Green Stuff a try and steer clear of the others unless you intend going on track, in which case you'll only last half the day anyway!

Stef.

John Gorman

ColinU
I remember you from the Borers Thrash. Im not using Greenstuff, dont last long enough. Ive got reds in just now and everyone whos driven the car cant fault them.

C U up the Hill

ColinU

John,

Names escaped me for the most part at the Border's Thrash -- which car were you in?

Brakes... I've managed to breath life back into mine. The fluid was well fried after the Knockhill event. Last night I fitted a set of braided hoses and changed the fuild for Mintex stuff. Hurrah... I've finally got bite back in my brakes!

See you at KH this Saturday.


- ColinU

John Gorman

ColinU
I have the white 94 WRX K11 JFG with the 4.5in exhaust. Doing much sideways and sillyness at watersplash..

C.U.at the HILL

RobinL

I've fitted Brembo Group N discs with some pagid blue pads from Scooby sport after calling round and making a few enquiries. They are substantially better than the OE brakes, without any fade at whatever speed. Haven't tried them on the track though.

ColinU - How easy is it to fit braided hoses and how much difference does it make ?

I've also considered the bracket thing that gives better brake pedal feel - does anyone else have experience of this ?

Cheers,

Robin.

TonyNesta

I've got a MY98, and the original brakes were crap. I now have 4-pot calipers, Pagid Blue pads, DOT 5 fluid, and braided steel lines, and the diference is amazing. MUCH more pedal pressure and feel, plenty of bite on the discs. Next step, Group N grooved discs, and maybe that bracket thing. Best brake setup you can get without spending Brembo money.

ColinU

RobinL
> How easy is it to fit braided hoses and how much difference does it make?
>

It’s fairly easy. How long?… Not too sure (I spent 9 hours pottering around putting new suspension stuts on the car, plus braided hoses, changing the fluid… and having my dinner!). I guess that doing the hoses only (plus the fluid bleed/change) should be no more than a relaxed 2-hour job.

Have the braided hoses improved things? Most very likely, but as I’ve been driving with pretty trashed fluid for so long I'd forgotten what good brakes should feel like! I guess that much of the improvement I have is down to new fluid. I’ve fitted braided hoses to several previous cars of mine and I’ve always noticed a slight difference in the firmness of the pedal. Also, it's great peace of mind knowing that your brake hoses are pretty much “armour plated”!

Process:
 Drain the brake fluid (you can do so without removing the wheels). Not essential, but if you’re fitting new hoses you might as well drain/change the fluid too.
 Jack up the car, chock a road wheel or two, and remove a road wheel.
 Make sure to clean away any road muck from around the hose/caliper/pipe. The last think you want to do is get muck/grit in the fluid and into the caliper… it can seize or score the caliper piston(s)!!!
 Loosen the banjo bolt (caliper end) and remove that end of the brake hose. Make sure you’ve got something to catch any remaining brake fluid in. There’s a compression washer on the outside of the banjo fitting- keep it for later (there’s not one on the inside)
 The hose passes through a holed flange about 6 inches up the strut. There’s a clip holding the hose in place… remove it (and keep it for later).
 Loosen and unscrew the top end of the hose. It’s a 10mm nut, but be careful with that spanner. If you try to turn it gently you’re more likely to mangle the soft flats of the nut, or worse still twist and shear the brake pipe it’s attached to! Best thing is to give the spanner a swift tap with a hammer. This’ll free it up easily.
 Remove the old hose.
 Fitting the new hose is the reverse of the above procedure. Remember the compression washer on the outside of the banjo fitting, and don’t over-tighten the nut at the top of the new hose. Note: the banjo fittings on the rear hoses have a slight angle on them, front ones are straight.
 Refit the road wheel.
 Repeat for the other 3 hoses.
 Fill the brake reservoir and bleed the brakes (you can do so with all road wheels on the car), the order I used was rear N/S, rear O/S, front N/S, front O/S. Use a decent fluid (about 0.8litres). I chose Mintex racing something-or-other – maybe not the tip-top best, but it stood up to a real hammering at the track on Saturday.


- ColinU

alistair

Love the title of this thread - would you recommend a different set up for slow road use ?