PhilBennett

Guys - I'm got a supply of these kits and am willing to sell them to you chaps on the BBS at the following prices:-

AP - £1300 + VAT
Brembo - £1225 + VAT (OZ SUPER T's) or £1205 + VAT (other rims)

Doc

So that would be £25 and £51 (+vat) cheaper than scoobymania and scoobysport respectively then?

Ian Cook

Quick question,

Are these official kits or just made up from whatever bits happen to fit at the time?

Would be interested in the specs!!!

BTW we have a specific section for sales by companies!

PhilBennett

Ian Cook - are they made up from whatever bits fit at the time!!! Cheeky git!! :-)

Seriously these are the proper kits as sold anywhere else. You do tend to deal with people like AP and Brembo when you race!

I'm sorry about the offers thing - I needed permission etc and I just wanted something up quickly as I'm away at tracks until Tuesday now.

Feel free to put in the correct part of the BBS.

Ian Cook

Phil, not so cheeky i am afraid, I have heard of so called official kits that end up being no such thing, ie Brembo kits that only have Brembo calipers, everything else just happens to fit, but is not made by Brembo ???? may have been a bit harsh, but you have to check

MorayMackenzie

Phil,

Who do we address warrantee claims to? Would that be Phil Bennett Ltd?

Moray

[This message has been edited by MorayMackenzie (edited 28-04-2000).]

PhilBennett

Phil Bennett Management Limited.

RobMac

Phil,

I would be VERY interested in finding out how you managed to get a deal on these brake parts as I also deal with these companies through motorsport and racing, and AFAIK these Subaru products are subject to EXCLUSIVE agreements with their respective outlets and NOT available to ANYONE ELSE.

Or could it be that these are not a FULL kit, only part of one, ie. calipers with a different discs and mounting bells for example?? You have to be very careful you know...

Rob.

PhilBennett

Hi Rob - Long time no see.

Yeah these brakes let me assure you that they are a genuine AP (or Brembo) brake kit.

So in the case of the AP equipment it comes with calipers, bells, discs, fixing kit, pads, hoses and even brake fluid.

For whatever reason there are many people who believe that certain Subaru Impreza parts can only be obtained via XY or Z.

This may be true in cases of Subaru original equipment but as you know with competition equipment it is widely available from people who want to sell!

As to who is supplying me - Forgive me Rob but I'm not prepared to go into detail on my companies business affairs on a public bulletin board.

But you know - and it kind of upsets me when I get posts like Ian's - I am a straight guy involved in motorsport. Why am I selling brakes? Well it just strikes me they are a popular purchase for people and if I can make some money here why not?

Why not import STI parts? or ECU's? or wheels? At the end of the day it isn't rocket science and I have some good contacts.

Ian Sutton

Phil I answered by E mail ....Ian

PhilBennett

Ian - you confuse me! What question did you answer?!!!

PhilBennett

Ian has asked me some good questions off line.

To give you some details on the AP product - basically you can either have them cross drilled or grooved in 305mm or 330mm just need to ensure you have sufficient size rims.

Delivery is 2 weeks if you want grooved discs as they have to be ordered directly off AP.

Regards, Phil.

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Phil,

it is considered good etiquette for companies selling goods via the BBS to help support it's operation through buying some advertising space, which is very reasonable (I'm told).

Just something you might like to consider

[This message has been edited by JohnS (edited 02-05-2000).]

Ian Sutton

Phil, would 330's fit a 17 inch MIM wheel ??

And as for the grooved /drilled arguement thats a previous thread that was not resolved after a rather long debate.

I think if someone Phil)has the contacts and can save us money then theres no reason while the selling of these brake products in this manor should be frownded at.

...Ian

DavieR

Phil,

I think what you are getting on this thread is the effects from standing on " A. N. OTHERS " company toes, and you've upset them.

But business is business. Well done.

PhilBennett

John - regards the advertising - yeah I'd be happy to consider if you e-mail me some rates, etc.

However the only reservation I have is that my "offers" are being judged as shadey in some quarters.

Well let me assure anyone reading - the sale of competition biased Subaru kit is available from a wide range of specialist suppliers. All this talk of restricted supply, special licence is in the main BS.

To clarify my own position - I have been involved in motor racing for 10 years. I am an International A race licence holder and a registered ARDS race instructor.

I am also the director of Phil Bennett Management Limited which I set up mainly for my own racing activities - however like I said before, over the 10 years I've competed I have made some good contacts and if I can sell some things that you guys are buying then I think I'm entitled to do so.

At the end of the day I think I'm offering for sale at a fair price and WITHOUT question the current Scooby outlets could easily match my price and still make money.

As an aside I don't really think I'm a serious threat to their commercial operations mainly because these guys have a good history with Subaru customers and - as you can see from the above posts - I offer to save you guys money and get a slating anyway!!

Ian - 330mm discs are OK with 17inch wheels - and I agree with you about the drilled disc arguement, more BS propaganda!

RobMac

Phil,

Fair enough if you have a supplier supplying you, I do not particularly want to get into details over a public medium.

What concerns me is that I spent a lot of time and effort with some colleagues last year developing a Subaru brake kit exclusively for a brake manufacturer and it's SOLE UK Subaru outlet, only for you to now say that this just isn't the case. I can assure you that this is not BS as I have been party to a lot of the ongoing discussions regarding exclusivity of that product.

It is not the fact that you are selling brake kits, or anything else for that matter, well done and good luck; but I think one of us is being SORELY mis-informed by our suppliers (could be me, I am in the process of checking) Or it could be that you have obtained a supply outside the normal UK channels...

Either way, you seem to have stepped on some peoples toes rather inadvertantly, as they are VERY keen to have this cleared up ASAP.

Rob.

JohnS

iTrader: (1)

Phil,

I hope you didn't think that I implied your parts or service to be sub-standard, it's just that when some companies try to sell things on the BBS without first building up a good reputation and helping support the BBS, many members get a little upset... I'm sure Greg from BPM will remember the reception that he got when he first started posting last year!

Not sure what the advertising rates are, but I'm sure that Phil can sort you out. Simply send an e-mail to webmaster@scoobynet.co.uk

Cheers

John

Stef

Phil.

You mention 'competition equipment'.
Are these kits for road use (seals,etc) or the racing kits?

Stef.

PhilBennett

To answer in turn.

John - no of course not, I think this BBS is a very fair. It's just like you say, we have a few cynics who seem to believe that many things that are Subaru "fit" are only available via certain outlets - and I can assure you this isn't the case.

Thanks for the details re ads.

Rob - Me and you have known each other for what? 12 months? And like I said I am a straight chap (hey I worked at Donington for free didn't I to help you out?)

Regards these brake kits - well mine are UK sourced. Now why is there this great mystic about AP brakes??

I read the relevant Scoobymania web page on AP brakes and I don't understand how these "specially developed" brakes differ from those available elsewhere?

You say that a great deal of time has been invested time in developing a brake kit for the Impreza but in what area? Not being dismissive but it appears (and I say this simply from looking at the Scoobymania web site) to be a normal AP brake kit!!!

As I said these are genuine AP kits for road cars. If there is a problem with the licence then you need to take matters up with AP. But I seriously doubt that your chaps have exclusivity on AP products.

As an example - tell me how does your exclusive brake kit differ from those brake kits available in, say, the Demon Tweeks catalogue?

Stef - My appologies I use the words competition simply because I view this kind of thing specialist and so call it competition biased - but no these kits are AP brake kits for what the boy racers call "FAST ROAD" application - whatever that means.

Ian Cook

Phil, up until recently the AP kit would not fit a 16" wheel, and really odd sizes of 17" wheels were required to mount them, they had peculiar offsets and had to have certain spoke patterns or the caliper collected the rim. Thats the main difference as i understand it anyway.

I dont believe Rob had anything to do with the AP kit but may be wrong.

Mike Tuckwood

AP Racing have made a 'road' kit for the Impreza for quite a while, I suspect (?) that this is what PE, DT & Phil are offering This is different to the kit we sell which we have developed with AP Racing to endure the rigours of more frequent track use more efectively.

Paul, the assembled kit is done by Hi-tec (?) and only uses the AP Caliper, the rest being made by them & other suppliers).

I welcome Phil's wish to make a few quid but it is far more comlicated than that.
Phil will not be able to supply as quickly as he thinks, The kits are not kept 'on the shelf' and AP regularly predict 4-6 week completion times, (which often slip)

We are available constantly to advise on technical, fitting and compatability issues and product support.

We are still evaluating the kit's we have fitted with AP Racing assesssing wear rates and pad suitability/performance on an ongoing basis.

This will continue. Scooby Mania's commitment to the Impreza community was not spurned by the opportunity to make a fast buck, it was generated by a desire to provide quality kit for less than it was costing at the time.

We consistently sell below RRP and hope that our quest to reduce prices wherever possible is aided by our customers supporting us in our endeavours.

It is a free market and I believe it is important that it remains so.

Mike.

(I think RobMac was involved in the Brembo kit set-up)?


[This message has been edited by Mike Tuckwood (edited 03-05-2000).]

strong

What I'd like to know about the various AP Racing kits from Demon Tweeks, Power Engineering and now Phil, which Scoobymania would say are AP calipers with other bits thrown in is: does AP supply the whole kit or does some company in the middle make the kit up?

I don't exactly see AP complaining about their calipers being sold as an 'AP Racing kit' with just any old disc/pad/bell.

Paul

RobMac

Yes guys, I was involved with the Brembo kit.

You have to understand that on the original post Brembo was mentioned and that immediately got me going into defensive mode. I have had nothing to do with the AP or any other kit (although I have with the Prodrive/Alcon, but that's a different story; and only VERY briefley)

It now seems that Phil has stopped mentioning the Brembo kit and concentrating on the AP kit.

Phil, sorry I didn't get the chance to sort this out at Bedford today. I am in no way implying that you are anything other than 100% honest, it's just that there is more to this Brembo kit business than you may be aware of, and it just needs clearing up very simply.

Rob.

AlastairB

Rob,

Any possibility of commenting on the Prodrive/Alcon setup and how it compares with the Brembos?

(The Prodrive/Alcon setup is the only one I've had experience of from the passenger seat)

Are the Brembos comparable/technically better?


Thanks
Alastair

PhilBennett

Well at last this thread is becoming productive.

I did concentrate on the AP brakes because Ian was enquiring about it - but I can still obtain Brembo kits - how mine differ from yours, I have no idea what your kit is.

Why is it, however, that when someone new enters a market they are only in it to make a fast buck?

Like I said I have good contacts, good knowledge and I am going to use it to make money - why not?

That isn't the same as flogging gear off the back of a lorry and running.

At the end of the day my competition experience is far in excess of most people in this field. I'm good at what I do and I think in this arena - GIVEN A CHANCE - I can be as good a supplier as anyone.

Not only that I'm not slagging anyone - so why are people kicking off at me??

What is still unclear to me - and I'm sure everyone else reading this is:-

1 - What IS this difference between Mike's AP kit and mine???

2 - Where is our licence issue now?

All of a sudden the initial outbursts seem to be amounting to nothing.

Sorry Rob - we should have spoken today - nothing personal here but I'm as keen as anyone to clarify things.

Regards, Phil.

Pete Croney

Phil

What Mike and Rob have said about the Brembo's is correct.

We spent a huge amount of time and money, working with Brembo's technical guys on the development. This involved measuring disc and pad temps, wear rates, etc. This was done at several circuits covering over 1,000 track miles. We also did 1,000's of road miles, here and on the continent (so we could legally test them from 150 mph stops). Rob did most of the driving.

As Mike has said, when companies invest this sort of time and money, manufacturers will give exclusive supply contracts. This is acheived with Brembo, by us sharing copyright on certain critical components. I'm sure AP and Alcon work the same way.

There is a Brembo kit which is widely available (GGR, PE, DT etc) which uses an Alfa Romeo yellow Brembo caliper and a non Brembo disc. I assume this is what you are supplying. The Scoobysport Brembo kit and the SPD Brembo kit (USA) are the only Official Brembo brake kits for Impreza's and the only ones that carry Brembo warranty. These are exclusive to our two companies.

I don't consider that you are treading on Scoobysport's toes. We have sold over 150 Brembo brake kits (the majority by word of mouth recommendation amongst existing customers) and our supply lines from Italy are always stretched by demand. If it's any consolation Mike, AP do not have the franchise on missing delivery dates.

PhilBennett

OK - Mike the tone of your note saddens me as it is clear to me (and I guess others reading) that you - without any knowledge of who I am, who is supplying me, etc, etc - decide to attempt discrediting me and my business - which I'm not going to carry on by discrediting yours.

Here are some points of clarity.

Regarding the application of 4 pistion calipers, etc - I suggested on another thread that a potentially cheap alternative might be harder pads.

Now this is just me being honest, rather than selling them £1500 of brakes that - yeah they will stop better -but is it really necessary? Question only the people who want them can answer.

This all started by me offering for sale genuine brake kits from Brembo and AP.

Now I haven't made any other claims about either the product or my company - but if people want to ask then I'm happy to answer.

Now for some reason you find a deliver time of 2 weeks amusing - well I'm not a liar. So again for clairity, AP 4 piston brake kit WITH grooved discs - 2 week leadtime - WITH drilled discs - straight away.

The service continues as - I also offer AP technical, assistance and support. How?

Well because my supplier is not only a large retailer of AP products but also a large user of AP products in competition.

The mystery surrounding the technical differences between the Scoobymania kit and mine and Demon Tweeks, etc, etc - is only there because it suits.

It creates confusion amoungst customers and whilst you may have offered these products for sale first, you may have the website, the BBS advert and the SIDC membership - that still doesn't allow you to attempt to discredit my business - something you know nothing about -and it must not continue Mike.

When all is said and done one thing remains.

I'm offering the same thing for less. IMHO that is good old fashioned value for money - something we all seem to have lost sight of in a world of marketing hype.

Guys that's the last word from me on this subject - I'm happy to answer technical queries about the product I'm selling or if you want to know about me. Either post it on this thread or mail me at phil@philbennett.com

Any other comments to me will only be answered off-line.

Mike Tuckwood

Phil I welcome your involvement, especially after you explained on the very recent thread

RobMac

AlistairB,

Both kits are as good as each other (phenomenal!!), and there really isn't much in it at all.

If anything, the Brembo's have a slightly better initial bite when you press the pedal, but that is just purely personal opinion.

Anyone like me to test the AP kit??? (whichever version of it you may have )

Rob.