Godspeed 335mm kit - Any problems?
10 March 2004, 03:49 PM
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Godspeed 335mm kit - Any problems?
This is for the split caliper kit and not the one using replacement Brembo calipers.
Before you read on firstly I want to say that I'm not blaming anyone just want to know who else is having problems.
I'm using the above kit with standard MY99 4-pots and 17" wheels, the kit was fitted by a very reputable Scoobie specialist who has fitted 20+ of these kits before. I wont name them as there is no need to and dont want to start a slagging off thread on anything. The bolts were threadlocked.
Had the kit fitted on Monday and been driving very carefully indeed. This morning on the way to work and not more than 15 mins on the road, I braked and heard metal to metal noise on the front OS. Stopped to have a look but no idea what to look for as not a car DIY person at all.
Anyhow, brakes looked ok, so carried on but then more rubbing metal nosies. Went to a local garage and seems the inside bottom caliper bolt (supplied with the kit) had sheared off at the head. It took off the lead weights on the inside of the wheel so must have been rubbing on there.
Basically the car was unsafe to use with only one bottom bolt as the caliper was moving causing more rubbing on the wheel.
I had the car recovered back to the place I had the brakes fitted and they are going to replace the lower caliper bolts on both sides with high tensile ones.
With Ian Godney on holiday I cant put his comments to the problem although have tried to contact him.
Cost for me? Stress at getting the problem which may have been worse at higher speeds + unecessary day off work + £100 to source these bolts and have them fitted.
Anyone had similar, hopefully less, problems??
Before you read on firstly I want to say that I'm not blaming anyone just want to know who else is having problems.
I'm using the above kit with standard MY99 4-pots and 17" wheels, the kit was fitted by a very reputable Scoobie specialist who has fitted 20+ of these kits before. I wont name them as there is no need to and dont want to start a slagging off thread on anything. The bolts were threadlocked.
Had the kit fitted on Monday and been driving very carefully indeed. This morning on the way to work and not more than 15 mins on the road, I braked and heard metal to metal noise on the front OS. Stopped to have a look but no idea what to look for as not a car DIY person at all.
Anyhow, brakes looked ok, so carried on but then more rubbing metal nosies. Went to a local garage and seems the inside bottom caliper bolt (supplied with the kit) had sheared off at the head. It took off the lead weights on the inside of the wheel so must have been rubbing on there.
Basically the car was unsafe to use with only one bottom bolt as the caliper was moving causing more rubbing on the wheel.
I had the car recovered back to the place I had the brakes fitted and they are going to replace the lower caliper bolts on both sides with high tensile ones.
With Ian Godney on holiday I cant put his comments to the problem although have tried to contact him.
Cost for me? Stress at getting the problem which may have been worse at higher speeds + unecessary day off work + £100 to source these bolts and have them fitted.
Anyone had similar, hopefully less, problems??
Last edited by RB5Caterham; 10 March 2004 at 09:12 PM.
10 March 2004, 04:47 PM
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Check on the original thread re the purchase. You will see my warning that the bolts holding the bracket to the hub require 100 Nm torque + threadlock. All four of my bolts sheared off a few hours after my local garage had fitted the kit! Ian assured me that following these instructions the bolts would be OK. Still waiting for my replacement bolts though. Anyone know where I can obtain some M14x2mm 30 mm bolts?
Martin
Martin
10 March 2004, 06:08 PM
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I had two bolts work loose on my kit.
Top bolt on the nearside fell out completely on the way into work one morning. At first I noticed a knocking noise when braking. Thought the pads were moving and didn't take much notice until it got progressively louder. Pulled over and checked the caliper, but it felt good and solid. Drove another 15-miles or so, hit a bump and there was a horrible scraping noise. Pulled over again and the caliper was riding on the wheel, destroying the balanced weights. Had to take the wheel off and use some thick tie-wraps to hold the caliper in-place until I could get to work (only another 5-miles) or so. There was no way the caliper could fall off or not have any braking force, so I didn't believe it was that dangerous if I took care.
Managed to source a replacement bolt from a local Engineering company and since then it's been fine (haven't used Threadlock).
A few weeks later knocking started again, this time on the opposite side. This time I knew it was the same problem. Sure enough, removed the wheel and the bottom bolt on the offside caliper had worked loose. Used another new bolt and since then (2-3 months) I've not had a problem.
None of my bolts sheered, they just worked loose. Either they weren't tightned sufficiently or it's because Threadlock wasn't used.
Is Threadlock common practice when fitting brake caliper bolts? If so, then I blame the local garage. If not, then Ian should add this to any instructions sent out with his kits. My kit didn't come with instructions or specific details on torque settings, but the garage I used had fitted a couple of Godspeed kits before.
I know Scoty also had the same problem as me about 6 mths earlier.
The only other issues I've had with the kit are:-
1. On the std calipers there are 2 bolts in each which hold down the large spring clip. Since the calipers are extended with Ian's spacers then the original bolts aren't long enough. ian did supply some new ones, but they were only split-pin type and weren't long enough to fit through the caliper. My garage used some longer, thicker bolts when fitting my kit.
2. I've had some bad vibration with the kit. This was down to uneven pad deposits (ferodo DS2500) and cleared with some heavy use and a few large stops (120 & 100). It's come back again and recently a few people me have mentioned problems like this with the Ferodo pads on large rotors. John Felstead believes this is heat-related with the larger discs, so I think I'll try some Mintex or EBC pads and see if it's just a problem with the Ferodo's.
Like you I'm not blaming Ian in the slightest. He's always been extremely helpful and very willing to cure and problems. It does raise a few questions and perhaps Ian needs to either modify the kits slightly (namely the caliper bolts), provide some more comprehensive instructions for the kits or possibly advise against using the Ferodo pads if others are expereincing vibration problems like me.
Stefan
Top bolt on the nearside fell out completely on the way into work one morning. At first I noticed a knocking noise when braking. Thought the pads were moving and didn't take much notice until it got progressively louder. Pulled over and checked the caliper, but it felt good and solid. Drove another 15-miles or so, hit a bump and there was a horrible scraping noise. Pulled over again and the caliper was riding on the wheel, destroying the balanced weights. Had to take the wheel off and use some thick tie-wraps to hold the caliper in-place until I could get to work (only another 5-miles) or so. There was no way the caliper could fall off or not have any braking force, so I didn't believe it was that dangerous if I took care.
Managed to source a replacement bolt from a local Engineering company and since then it's been fine (haven't used Threadlock).
A few weeks later knocking started again, this time on the opposite side. This time I knew it was the same problem. Sure enough, removed the wheel and the bottom bolt on the offside caliper had worked loose. Used another new bolt and since then (2-3 months) I've not had a problem.
None of my bolts sheered, they just worked loose. Either they weren't tightned sufficiently or it's because Threadlock wasn't used.
Is Threadlock common practice when fitting brake caliper bolts? If so, then I blame the local garage. If not, then Ian should add this to any instructions sent out with his kits. My kit didn't come with instructions or specific details on torque settings, but the garage I used had fitted a couple of Godspeed kits before.
I know Scoty also had the same problem as me about 6 mths earlier.
The only other issues I've had with the kit are:-
1. On the std calipers there are 2 bolts in each which hold down the large spring clip. Since the calipers are extended with Ian's spacers then the original bolts aren't long enough. ian did supply some new ones, but they were only split-pin type and weren't long enough to fit through the caliper. My garage used some longer, thicker bolts when fitting my kit.
2. I've had some bad vibration with the kit. This was down to uneven pad deposits (ferodo DS2500) and cleared with some heavy use and a few large stops (120 & 100). It's come back again and recently a few people me have mentioned problems like this with the Ferodo pads on large rotors. John Felstead believes this is heat-related with the larger discs, so I think I'll try some Mintex or EBC pads and see if it's just a problem with the Ferodo's.
Like you I'm not blaming Ian in the slightest. He's always been extremely helpful and very willing to cure and problems. It does raise a few questions and perhaps Ian needs to either modify the kits slightly (namely the caliper bolts), provide some more comprehensive instructions for the kits or possibly advise against using the Ferodo pads if others are expereincing vibration problems like me.
Stefan
10 March 2004, 08:40 PM
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Cheers for the replies guys but to be really honest some people, myself included, would not know where the hell to look or how to if this problem happens. To be honest, with Ian's reputation, we shouldnt need to worry about this at all.
Anyway here's an update, once again, no way in hell am I saying Ian's kit is of an inferior quality, as you say Stefan, he may need to rethink how the kit is packaged etc.
The garage called me earlier on and they took the sheared off bolt and another to two engineering firms, one the garage use and the other which provides the local Subaru dealership.
Both confirmed the sheared off bolt is basically a manufacturing defect and does not have the heat treatment required for its job, vibration, heat may have caused it to become loose. So no ones fault really but a bit of QA somewhere in the chain might have been helpful.
The other bolt was fine so it could be a dodgy batch but my garage are reluctant to use these bolts and are replacing the bottom two on each caliper with high tensile ones. As a precaution they have called other owners who have had the kit fitted to get theirs checked out.
If you have had these fitted it may be worth having things checked, there may not be a chance of the caliper failing but do you really want to chance it???
Anyway here's an update, once again, no way in hell am I saying Ian's kit is of an inferior quality, as you say Stefan, he may need to rethink how the kit is packaged etc.
The garage called me earlier on and they took the sheared off bolt and another to two engineering firms, one the garage use and the other which provides the local Subaru dealership.
Both confirmed the sheared off bolt is basically a manufacturing defect and does not have the heat treatment required for its job, vibration, heat may have caused it to become loose. So no ones fault really but a bit of QA somewhere in the chain might have been helpful.
The other bolt was fine so it could be a dodgy batch but my garage are reluctant to use these bolts and are replacing the bottom two on each caliper with high tensile ones. As a precaution they have called other owners who have had the kit fitted to get theirs checked out.
If you have had these fitted it may be worth having things checked, there may not be a chance of the caliper failing but do you really want to chance it???
10 March 2004, 09:22 PM
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Hmm,Maybe i will change my bolts on the kit i have mountet,
I have only driven it for 600km and i have not tested the brakes hard yet,but i have had no problems at all.
Skassa
I have only driven it for 600km and i have not tested the brakes hard yet,but i have had no problems at all.
Skassa
10 March 2004, 09:53 PM
#7
I was going to fit my kit this weekend,may be not a wise move after reading these posts.
Surely with something like brakes,these kits have been tried and tested?
what would happen if these bolts came loose at high speeds?
And if we should be using high tensile bolts then they should come with the kits.
Sounds a bit worrying to me...........
Surely with something like brakes,these kits have been tried and tested?
what would happen if these bolts came loose at high speeds?
And if we should be using high tensile bolts then they should come with the kits.
Sounds a bit worrying to me...........
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10 March 2004, 10:17 PM
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Just to put forward another tint on this saga, I bought a very slightly secondhand kit about a year ago, fitted it myself, no threadlock, and have done about 10K on them, no trouble what-so-ever, no loose or broken bolts, just big grins every time I haul her up!
Maybe, just maybe, Ian may have changed bolt suppliers, I don't know clearly, but there may be an issue with the strength of them, and I noticed recently that on the new pictures iof this kit, the bolts that hold the caliper to the bracket are now 'cap screws' ie, allen key type, where as mine are hex bolts!
Certainly needs looking into, as brakes are a serious safety item eh!!
Ron.
Maybe, just maybe, Ian may have changed bolt suppliers, I don't know clearly, but there may be an issue with the strength of them, and I noticed recently that on the new pictures iof this kit, the bolts that hold the caliper to the bracket are now 'cap screws' ie, allen key type, where as mine are hex bolts!
Certainly needs looking into, as brakes are a serious safety item eh!!
Ron.
11 March 2004, 07:57 AM
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Skassa, as far as I know, we (the ones have had problems) have hardly done much driving, let alone bed the brakes in.
Rooferman, if you are capable or perhaps confident in fitting the kit yourself, you will use the threadlock and the torque setting mentioned anyway, personally I'd get the bolts checked out anyway as they could carry the defect too.
I'm sure this kit has been tested and many people have bought it to use as per our configuration. As Ron says the change in bolt head or manufacturer might have something to do it, I dont know.
The point of this thread is really to make people using this kit on the OE calipers aware that there MAY be a potential problem. Last thing you want is having this problem at 50mph. I was lucky.
Rooferman, if you are capable or perhaps confident in fitting the kit yourself, you will use the threadlock and the torque setting mentioned anyway, personally I'd get the bolts checked out anyway as they could carry the defect too.
I'm sure this kit has been tested and many people have bought it to use as per our configuration. As Ron says the change in bolt head or manufacturer might have something to do it, I dont know.
The point of this thread is really to make people using this kit on the OE calipers aware that there MAY be a potential problem. Last thing you want is having this problem at 50mph. I was lucky.
11 March 2004, 08:26 AM
#10
I had this problem and have posted the bolts back to Ian for him to inspect.
I bought 8 bolts (4 spare) from IndFast in Sheffield for £3.52 inc vat. I think they can deliver/mail if you need them to. No problems since fitting 400 miles ago.
No tel number, but its on Edmund street.
The ones Ian supplied had fracture marks that appear on very low quality material.
I bought 8 bolts (4 spare) from IndFast in Sheffield for £3.52 inc vat. I think they can deliver/mail if you need them to. No problems since fitting 400 miles ago.
No tel number, but its on Edmund street.
The ones Ian supplied had fracture marks that appear on very low quality material.
11 March 2004, 03:31 PM
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Same problem here! One bolt head sheared off. I took the bolt to a guy who knows something about bolts, he told me that when the bolts are being zink coated, small cracks can come to them.
I´m changing all the bolts to not zinked ones.
Pasi
I´m changing all the bolts to not zinked ones.
Pasi
Last edited by Pasi; 12 March 2004 at 12:33 PM.
11 March 2004, 05:35 PM
#12
Originally Posted by RB5Caterham
Skassa, as far as I know, we (the ones have had problems) have hardly done much driving, let alone bed the brakes in.
Rooferman, if you are capable or perhaps confident in fitting the kit yourself, you will use the threadlock and the torque setting mentioned anyway, personally I'd get the bolts checked out anyway as they could carry the defect too.
I'm sure this kit has been tested and many people have bought it to use as per our configuration. As Ron says the change in bolt head or manufacturer might have something to do it, I dont know.
The point of this thread is really to make people using this kit on the OE calipers aware that there MAY be a potential problem. Last thing you want is having this problem at 50mph. I was lucky.
Rooferman, if you are capable or perhaps confident in fitting the kit yourself, you will use the threadlock and the torque setting mentioned anyway, personally I'd get the bolts checked out anyway as they could carry the defect too.
I'm sure this kit has been tested and many people have bought it to use as per our configuration. As Ron says the change in bolt head or manufacturer might have something to do it, I dont know.
The point of this thread is really to make people using this kit on the OE calipers aware that there MAY be a potential problem. Last thing you want is having this problem at 50mph. I was lucky.
Think i will get sum new bolts sat. morning ,before fitting,..
11 March 2004, 08:30 PM
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I received my replacement bolts in the post today from Ian. They are a slightly different colour - more gold than the silver originally supplied. However I am reluctant to use them after my worrying experience. I have found some high tensile bolts from an online supplier but they are hex headed rather than capheads. Would this be a problem fitting to my 03 WRX?
Martin
Martin
11 March 2004, 10:54 PM
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Different prob
I have had my godspeed kit fitted for about 14 months and no probs with bolts at all. However I have an increasingly bad problem with warped discs, that now needs attending too. The brakes have had a very easy life with no proper track activity and granny driving on the road.
Anyone else had disc probs?
Graham
Anyone else had disc probs?
Graham
11 March 2004, 11:12 PM
#15
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I *thought* my discs were warped after I had serious vibrations only a week or so after fitting the kit. Turned out just to be an uneven build up of pad deposits. Ian even sent a spare set of discs just in case.
Are you sure they are warped?
We'd need to ask Ian, but maybe the bolt problems are only recent after changing types. Are your bolts hex cap or hex socket cap?
Stefan
Are you sure they are warped?
We'd need to ask Ian, but maybe the bolt problems are only recent after changing types. Are your bolts hex cap or hex socket cap?
Stefan
11 March 2004, 11:19 PM
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WRXCFC,
The hex bolts will fit the actual caliper bolts, but they're a bit difficult to get a good purchase on with a spanner, you'll be very lucky to get a socket on them. You will not be able to use hex bolts on all four of the bolts, the two into the hub really need to be cap screws, otherwise the heads will clash!
Gridgway,
I'd be amazed if your discs are warped, because they've 'had an easy life' you need to abuse them!! Thats what they're for!!!
Do a couple of higher speed stops, and see if that helps, one hit, high speed to a halt, that should shift the pad deposits!"
Ron.
The hex bolts will fit the actual caliper bolts, but they're a bit difficult to get a good purchase on with a spanner, you'll be very lucky to get a socket on them. You will not be able to use hex bolts on all four of the bolts, the two into the hub really need to be cap screws, otherwise the heads will clash!
Gridgway,
I'd be amazed if your discs are warped, because they've 'had an easy life' you need to abuse them!! Thats what they're for!!!
Do a couple of higher speed stops, and see if that helps, one hit, high speed to a halt, that should shift the pad deposits!"
Ron.
11 March 2004, 11:37 PM
#17
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Mine took a few 100 & 120 stops. Managed to find a long enough and secluded road near where I live to clean them. Problem is it's barely a B-road, so it was a bit nerve racking with ditches on either side 
Best trying a quiet dual carraigeway at night me thinks.
Stefan
Best trying a quiet dual carraigeway at night me thinks.
Stefan
12 March 2004, 01:39 AM
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I had the brakes fitted at the same place as RB5Caterham and got called up about this yesterday, and am going to get some of the new bolts put on when I can.
I have done about 800 miles with the brakes on and so far (touch wood) havent had any problems - or at least anything that has been noticeable.
However, to be fair, I havent really used them in anger yet and really stood on them, although there has been some moderately heavy braking.
Graham - I presume your discs are grooved? While chatting while I was getting mine fitted, I was told that sometimes dirt and brake dust deposits can build up in the grooves and upset the action of the pad, causing some people to think that they have a problem, such as warped discs, when in actual fact there isnt anything wrong. A quick clean of the grooves can therefore sometimes cure the 'problem'. Maybe worth checking out stuff like that before replacing anything?
John
I have done about 800 miles with the brakes on and so far (touch wood) havent had any problems - or at least anything that has been noticeable.
However, to be fair, I havent really used them in anger yet and really stood on them, although there has been some moderately heavy braking.
Graham - I presume your discs are grooved? While chatting while I was getting mine fitted, I was told that sometimes dirt and brake dust deposits can build up in the grooves and upset the action of the pad, causing some people to think that they have a problem, such as warped discs, when in actual fact there isnt anything wrong. A quick clean of the grooves can therefore sometimes cure the 'problem'. Maybe worth checking out stuff like that before replacing anything?
John
12 March 2004, 10:40 AM
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Had my new bolts fitted yesterday and they are the Hex type ones. Still I dont feel 100% about braking, that incident the other day scared me ****eless.
If I have anymore news then I will post up again.
Safe driving people.
If I have anymore news then I will post up again.
Safe driving people.
12 March 2004, 01:48 PM
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This is worrying. Did RB5Caterham just get his in the recent group buy? I have just had mine fitted last week. Anyone any pics of exactly which bolts I need to be checking, I have a good idea which one's, just wanted confirmation.
12 March 2004, 02:54 PM
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PhilA, yes I did, the majority of the posts on here are from people who were on the group buy. They are the two bolts on each caliper on the side facing into the car connected to the hub (?).
You may not have an problems mate but just get them checked or replaced.
For peace of mind, there are too many who had the same problem as me but seems it happens quite quickly after fitting.
Edited to say that my garage replaced top and bottom mouting bracket bolts (2 per side) and threadlocked with correct torque setting. They are going to speak to Ian to see what he thinks about the faulty bolt. (Disregard Wuz's comment from me, I have confirmation on what was done).
You may not have an problems mate but just get them checked or replaced.
For peace of mind, there are too many who had the same problem as me but seems it happens quite quickly after fitting.
Edited to say that my garage replaced top and bottom mouting bracket bolts (2 per side) and threadlocked with correct torque setting. They are going to speak to Ian to see what he thinks about the faulty bolt. (Disregard Wuz's comment from me, I have confirmation on what was done).
Last edited by RB5Caterham; 12 March 2004 at 04:17 PM.
12 March 2004, 03:12 PM
#22
Originally Posted by RB5Caterham
Edited to say that have only had the bottom two bolts on each caliper replaced, top ones have been left, thats what my garage seem to think was best. They are going to speak to Ian to see what he thinks.
Ian is not really to blame, but I do feel that he may have to do some QA on his suppliers bolts.
12 March 2004, 04:22 PM
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Anyone got any views on the split pins? Ozzy, believe you didnt use them in the end on yours and got bolts made up instead?
Are these pins safe? I've got to say I know nothing about this sort of thing and I didnt know exactly what the kit comprises of in terms of fixing parts. Please excuse my ignorance.
Are these pins safe? I've got to say I know nothing about this sort of thing and I didnt know exactly what the kit comprises of in terms of fixing parts. Please excuse my ignorance.
12 March 2004, 04:51 PM
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I got Gavin's car with Chris's brakes.
I thought the pins were just there for the pads to slide on, not actually to hold the caliper together??
I'll know more after I actually looked at it, at the weekend.
I thought the pins were just there for the pads to slide on, not actually to hold the caliper together??
I'll know more after I actually looked at it, at the weekend.
12 March 2004, 05:44 PM
#28
Would be handy to have torque settings for all other fixings involved with this kit ie ,caliper to spacing bracket,bottom strut bolt,and caliper bolts..
I think im gonna wait till next weekend,or at least untill Ian ,s back..
Crappy weather this weekend anyway
I think im gonna wait till next weekend,or at least untill Ian ,s back..
Crappy weather this weekend anyway
12 March 2004, 08:27 PM
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The split pins do NOT hold the caliper together, that what the four longer bolts do! the pins simply locate the pads!
heres a pic of the rear of one of these kits, an older one with two capscrews, and two hex bolts,
There's simply not enough room there to have four hex bolts.
Just to clarify, is it the 'hub' bolts?? or the 'caliper' bolts that have been failing, I ask because the 'hub' bolts have been Capsrews forever I think, if it's the caliper ones that are failing then that would only mean that the kits that have been made since he changed to a capscrew for them aswell are at risk.
I hope that made sense!!
Ron.
heres a pic of the rear of one of these kits, an older one with two capscrews, and two hex bolts,
There's simply not enough room there to have four hex bolts.
Just to clarify, is it the 'hub' bolts?? or the 'caliper' bolts that have been failing, I ask because the 'hub' bolts have been Capsrews forever I think, if it's the caliper ones that are failing then that would only mean that the kits that have been made since he changed to a capscrew for them aswell are at risk.
I hope that made sense!!
Ron.
12 March 2004, 08:33 PM
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i had exactly the same trouble with my kit, had it fitted about 3 weeks ago on the saturday, drove my car very steady to bed them in properly but by the monday i could hear a rattling noise when i drove over small bumps that went when i put my foot on the brake, when i checked it i found that the bolt heads had sheared off, one off either side and when i took the other one out of the passenger side that was cracked around the head so only 1 bolt out of the 4 was any good, needless to say i wasn't impressed! i replaced the bolts with 8.8's not the 12.9's supplied and i haven't had any problems since, i can only put the problem down to a bad batch of bolts but this never should have happened cos it could have been disastrous.
Last edited by Dave uk blue mica; 12 March 2004 at 08:40 PM.